Chrysler working on electric cars and plug-in hybrids (AutoSpies.com)

09/02/2008: Chrysler may be struggling substantially more than its Detroit 3 rivals, or any other major carmaker for that matter, but the company is hard at work and investing in the next-generation of powertrain and vehicle technologies.

Bill Putney wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@mid.individual.net:

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Bill...yes and yes. I am part of the CAB, Chrysler Advisory Board and it has been a discussion over there even with a couple of the VP's in our live chats. Electric and diesel. They aren't pushing the hybrid thing at this point, they are fairly convinced hybrids are a bandaid and potentially create as many problems farther down the road. And it is to gain public confidence and to show they really are doing things even if it is not really apparent yet. They are suppose to be kicking off a more intense advertising campaign by the end of the year. Changes are happening and will start showing up in cars by late October, so they say.

That's honest. Hybrids are indeed only a Band-Aid.

Often promoted by ignoramuses away from Engineering in the car industry. Probably not in the industry at all.

DAS

To send an e-mail directly replace "spam" with "schmetterling"

I guess we shall see.

I may be wrong but I think the original intent of hybrids was to be more green, to reduce gases and carbons, They just so happen to get a little better fuel mileage. Very little. Reports on TV say that it takes 5 years of Prius ownership to make up the difference in cost of the vehicle and as much as 22 years for a Chevy Tahoe Hybrid that costs more than USD

52,000. Battery replacement costs are running USD 3000 to USD 5000.

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"Dori A Schmetterling" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@pipex.net:

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Is Prius Really Greener Than Other Cars?

I think the intent of hybrids is to capture as much wasted energy as possible to feed back into the drive train. In the Prius, even the fluids are drawn back into insulated compartments to retain as much heat as possible.

Most of the captured energy comes from regenerative braking. Increases in fuel economy comes from having a small engine (1.5L - 70 hp) which gets assisted by the electric motor (50 kw) when more power is called for. The batteries are also charged directly by the gas engine, but I can't imagine that efficiency is very high.

Perhaps the Prius is a good choice for an inner-city vehicle, perhaps as a taxi or for urban commuters. For long distance or highway commuters, I don't think it's a good choice compared to an ordinary small car with a similar-sized gas or diesel engine.

If our traffic-light control system was more efficient - such that it constantly is making timing decisions based on vehicle counting, trying to maximize the number of vehicles in motion, then you'd probably achieve a huge fuel savings.

Consumer Reports a couple years ago estimated an 8-year break-even point with gas at $5/gallon.

Perce

So where are the diesels? They sell diesel 300s in Europe so why don't they sell them here? In the 300 forums I see people claiming that they get

35-40 MPG in the 300 diesel. My first impression was wow until I realized that they must be talking about Imperial gallons, however if you translate that number into American gallons it still translates to 28-32 MPG which is much better than the 300C. I get 15/21 in my 300C, I'd be thrilled to get 28.

My bandaid Camry hybrid easily gets 35 mpg city or highway. That's a pretty good bandaid if you ask me. Payback is 1 year according to Consumer Reports at around $4/ gallon.

No one knows what the batteries cost because no one has needed a replacement yet even from the first generation Prius. Even if a cell dies, you replace just one cell, not the whole battery pack.

The Camry hybrid is the smart buy. Only 1 year payback period according to Consumer Reports.

| | No one knows what the batteries cost because no one has needed a replacement | yet even from the first generation Prius. Even if a cell dies, you replace | just one cell, not the whole battery pack. |

Want to take any bets they'll sell you one battery? and if they do it won't be a 10 prices?

Well that's what you get with your precious AWD and extra 400 lbs of deadweight.

I get 28 - 32 mpg on the highway in my 3.5L 300m.

It's not the AWD and it's not the HEMI, there is only 1 MPG difference between the 3.5 RWD and AWD HEMI versions of the 300. It's the weight and the lousy aerodynamics. My Concord got 29 on the highway and the 22 in everyday driving. The Concord was streamlined and it was much lighter than the 300.

The hybrid Camry burns about 45 gallons less per year then the regular Camry so it will save you $180 a year @ $4/gallon. Was the hybrid really only $180 more than the regular Camry?

Here is the math

12000/35 = 342 (Hybrid) 12000/31 = 387 (regular)

posted in 2006 possibly things have improved

Edmunds has crunched the numbers, and has determined just how long it would take for buyers of new hybrids to break even (save enough money on gas to offset the additional expense of buying a hybrid). The results are surprising: Of vehicles that have an equivalent hybrid version, the 2007 Ford Escape Hybrid has the earliest break-even point. However, it still takes 2.9 years to save an Escape Hybrid's owner enough money to break even when compared to the cost of a four-cylinder 2007 Escape XLT. Other highlights show the Toyota Camry Hybrid takes 8.2 years to break even compared to the powerful six-cylinder Camry LE and 5.8 years with the loaded four-cylinder Camry XLE. The Lexus RX 400h takes a whopping 13.6 years to break even with the Lexus RX 350.

Calculations were based on Edmunds' True Market Value for each vehicle,

15,000 miles per year combined city and highway driving, the average national price of gas ($3 per gallon on August 14), rebates and 2006 federal tax credits. We sought the most equivalent model from within the carmakers' lineups. Where necessary, we added options, such as leather or a sunroof in the 2006 Toyota Highlander Limited, in order to make the hybrid-to-gas model comparison as close as possible.

What about the 2006 Toyota Prius? This category creator doesn't have an equivalent gas-only version, so we compared it to both the 2006 Toyota Corolla LE and the gas-only Camry LE. This comparison skews the numbers dramatically: It takes the Prius a shocking 13.6 years to catch up with the Corolla. Comparing the Prius to the Camry LE, though, makes it a scene-stealer: only 2.1 years to break even, the shortest of any of our comparisons. But beware: The numbers here include the Prius' gigantic $3,150 federal tax credit, which will drop to $1,575 in October, because the number of total Toyota hybrids sold has reached a 60,000-unit-per-manufacturer cap.

Maybe you should do the math. You left out city mileage. Hybrid gets 34 in the city according to EPA. 35 or 36 in our experience. Check the non hybrid city mileage and try your math again.

Great calculation if you can buy gas for $3. Consumer Reports just did the calculations at $4 which is closer to the truth and Camry payback is 1 year. Check it out at the library.

Art,

Save us the trip to the library and please provide the math behind the 1 year payback calculation since this does not seem feasible, even at $10/gallon... Thanks.

Bob