Engine problems (3.5l HO in 2000 300m)...

So everything seemed to be running fine on my car, till yesterday. Did my

35km commute back home, and when I got to the lights outside town, the car was idling really rough. Enough to give the car a gentle shaking.

I got home, turned the car off, turned it back on, same issue. Rev it up, and it ran smoothly after about 1500rpm, but rough below that. No "Check Engine" light, tried doing the OBD retrieval, but I don't know if I didn't get one because I don't know what I'm doing, or because there wasn't one to retrieve. Have to check into that more later.

This morning, I thought I'd try taking the car to work, see how it did. But as I pulled out, I noticed a lot more exhaust cloud than I'm used to seeing, especially at current temperatures. Pulled back into the driveway, and noticed a fluid spill about 6" in diameter. Felt kind of oily, but it wasn't engine out (wrong color). Pulled the car into the garage, and checked the fluid levels, and all seem to be good with the exception of the coolant level (down, but not too low yet). Ran the car for a bit again, noticed the exhaust cloud again. Doesn't smell really off, but not really normal either. Found out the fluid leak is happening at the muffler/exhaust system connection.

One other reference point is that on the way home, I passed a semi on a two lane road, so for the first time since I've owned the car (about a month), I had to really tromp on the throttle. Did pretty good going from 80km/h to

140 though! :)

So my thought is a blown head gasket, causing a coolant leak. Any other thoughts or ideas? Any idea how many hours it is to replace that (shop hours)?

I'll be posting a similar message to the

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forums, and possibly the DodgeIntrepid forums. Reply where ever you feel comfortable!

Clint

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Clint
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White smoke (i.e. steam) out of exhaust pipe combined with low coolant level seems to be pretty indicative of coolant getting into combustion chambers. Rough idle is probably due to the cylinder(s) in which coolant is getting into not firing. You can probably find out which cylinder(s) that is/are by pulling out spark-plugs and seeing which ones look freshly cleaned with coolant (i.e. clean and shiny). That will give you a good idea on which side of the engine gasket/head/ block is damaged.

Did the oil look whitish/creamy? Often when the head gasket blows, vapors can get into the oil contaminating it and making it look creamy.

Thanks,

Alex > So everything seemed to be running fine on my car, till yesterday. Did my

Reply to
april1st

The oil color was normal.

Clint

Reply to
Clint

BTW, thanks for the quick response! :)

Clint

Reply to
Clint

In another forum, someone else suggested checking the plugs, and that the leak might possibly be an external leak running down the exhaust system to the muffler. He also indicated I should prepare for a "big bill" due to the size of the puddle. My notes on that follow:

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How big is a "big bill"? Like engine replacement big, or what? Timing belt replacement big?

The plugs are new anyway (like a week old), so I'm not sure that they'd be terribly dirty regardless of a coolant leak or not. I don't think the plug change should have anything to do with the rough idle, but it could be related, I guess.

I don't think there's a leak running down to the muffler, as there's no other leaks under the car in between. And the cloud of smoke was very white. There was no smell of antifreeze when the heater was turned on this morning.

I stuck my finger in the overflow tank, and it had the same "feel" as the fluid at the leak. Kind of oily, but not really. Not water, in any case. The coolant level was down lower than I thought, but still in the overflow. There was no overheating at any time (never got above the halfway point of the gauge), so hopefully that will minimize damage.

Anyway, I just got back from taking the car to the garage, and the guy who saw me drive in was pretty sure that it was some sort of coolant leak just from the cloud. Even before he knew why I was coming there. So it's probably a question of how bad, and how expensive. *sigh* On the hopefully plus side of things, the local shop has two guys with extensive Chrysler experience... They did express surprise that this engine would have a head gasket issue; it wasn't something they'd seen on them in the past.

I'll post back when I get the news. For posterity's sake, if nothing else. BTW, I'm also due for a timing belt change. The guy at the shop indicated that doing one at the same time would save on labour. Does that make sense? If so, at least that's a cost saving... Gotta look at the bright side of things!

Clint

Reply to
Clint

For what its worth, the Chrysler 3.5 is NOT noted for blowing gaskets. Actually, its not noted for anything bad- its a great engine. The 2.7 on the other hand... :-p Even if it is a head gasket, its well worth fixing (fixing RIGHT, including checking the head and block surfaces for flatness and machining if necessary) and keeping.

You said you haven't had the car long, right? I gotta wonder if the previous owner overheated it, or otherwise knew the gasket was failing and unloaded it for that reason.

Reply to
Steve

Yeah, the thought of it getting dumped when the previous owner knew about the problem has crossed my mind... I'll probably drop them a note when it's all said and done, but I doubt anything will come of it. For all I know, the head gasket was blown already, and they just dropped in the magic tablets to try to stop it temporarily. Then when I tromped on the gas to pass the truck yesterday, it just opened it up again. Who knows... I did try flooring the throttle a few times when I test drove it, and nothing happened (besides acceleration). And I have run at least 1500 km's on it since I bought it, including an 800 km jaunt my wife did with her sisters out to the mountains.

The shop just called, and they found the #5 plug as "wet", so there's definately a leak somewhere in there. But until they find out what exactly it is (gasket vs. cracked, head resurfacing required, etc), they couldn't say too much *sigh* And they can't find out too much until they pull the head off, which will be happening shortly. Initial estimate is $800 for the head gasket replacement. All prices in CDN$. They quoted me $500 on the timing belt change, and at least half of that was labour, so I'll save that, anyway.

Cl>

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Reply to
Clint

Have them change the water pump too. Make sure the oil gets changed. Drive it 100 mi & chanage the oil again!!!

Reply to
sqdancerLynn

You might still be lucky, its remotely possible that it could be a lower intake gasket and that its sucking coolant in the intake runner. Usually those leak out externally, though.

Reply to
Steve

More details....

There was good news, and bad news. On the good side, there was a concern yesterday that there might have been a piston/valve collision as part of the fun. Don't know why they were concerned about that in particular, but there you go. That didn't occur, and there was no cracked head or warpage, so that helps.

On the not so good side, it appears that this was caused by a plugged EGR valve (I think he said) that caused a build-up of pressure. That caused the head gasket around the #5 cylinder to blow. So there's a few more gaskets and valves that need to be replaced. But since everything is yanked apart anyway, it's just a matter of parts cost, rather than additional labour. They were planning on putting in a new water pump, and the old one was showing signs of leaking anyway.

Current estimate is $600 for parts, and $600 for labour. Could have it back as early as tomorrow night, if he can get all the parts in a timely fashion. I asked him if the previous owner could have tried to hide the damage to sell it, but he didn't figure that was likely.

Clint

Reply to
Clint

I am not sure that EGR valve had much with the headgasket blowing -- headgasket seals the space between the block & the head... It has passages for oil and coolant... Usually it blows due to the engine overheating at some point, which forces great stresses on the gasket... Once microscopic cracks develop in the gasket the rest is simply the matter of time. Huge pressures created during combustion force gases into the cracks, and eventually a passage is created allowing coolant to seep into the combustion chamber...

EGR valve allows exhaust gases to enter combustion chamber for emission control purposes. Stuck EGR (Exhaust Gas Recirculation) valve clearly will contribute to rough idle conditions but is unlikely to cause the gasket to blow...

There was no reason for the shop to think that there might have been a collision between pistons/valves -- the only way that happens is if timing belt jumps -- does not really happen on these cars unless they are WAY over the service interval of 100K mi/160K km

But it totally makes sense to replace the belt/water pump... I have three LH cars with high milage (3.2/3.5 engines) and I replaced belt/ pumps on all of them... I would recommend swapping out also timing belt tensioner pulley (it is a $70 CAD part from the dealer). I found that on 2 of my 3 cars the bearing in that pulley was starting to go...

BTW, the reas> More details....

Reply to
april1st

Ended up being closer to $1500 by the time a coolant flush was done. Seems that should have been in the initial estimate, but what do I know. They did run it for awhile and then do an oil change as well; should I still do another one in a week or so?

They figured everything else was good, so I should be ok for the next 160K km! :)

Thanks for your thoughts and advice, all!

Clint

Reply to
Clint

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