Expensive Air job (not fixed) still

Hi people, I just wanted to share my expensive air conditioning job I paid for and had done at a (Five Star) Chrysler Dealership. This started in June

2003, I had no air working in my 1994 Plymouth Voyager, this van looks like brand new inside and out with just 48,000 miles on it, it's my baby. Well I thought the mechanics fixed it, I paid over $1,300.00 for the parts and labor. When I went to pick my van up I almost dropped dead when I looked at the inside and outside of my vechicle, there was grease all over the seats and carpet and on the head liner too. The exterior of it had chips nicked out, and black over spray was all over the passanger side of the van. I complained and the manager had me leave it over night so they could clean it up. There was more said and done but it would take way to long to tell all of it so I'll tell ya what happened next. In 2004 I turned on the air and guess what? no air again. This time I took it to another dealer to have it looked at and fixed without paying. It was still under warranty TG. I get a call from the other deal and they tell me we can't fix your van because it has a aftermarket part on it from this first dealer I took it to and I'd have to take it back there. Oh man! So I took it back again and the owner denied it was an aftermarket part (of course) that didn't surprise me. So I left it and when it was fixed I went to pick it up and guess what? While me and the owner had the hood up and it was running with the air on I heard a loud hissing sound and the refrigerant was leaking out right there in front of us. So now I had to leave it once again. And mind you, the owner has never once offered me a loaner car knowing I had a ways to drive back and forth to take my van there. So it gets pretty annoying now, I picked it up and the air worked fine until June 2005. I took it in last year again and had to pay 69.95 to have it looked at and on the next day the dealer called me and stated what was wrong with it and the cost ($900.00) for the same parts I paid in 2003 to be replaced. When I got to the dealer I took the estimate right inside to the owner, sat down in his office with him and was in tears at this point, he refunded my $69.95 and said he would find a way to write-off the costs to fix my van so I left it there again. Now you won't believe it I have NO air again in 2006. I called Chrysler Corporate Headquarters and complained and I was told to take it back to this same dealer and they would have STAR Techs get involved to resolve this matter now. Does anyone know what STAR is and who do they work for? Are they a mediation group or what? I feel I should be paid now for 4 years of hell I've been put through with this dealship. And I forgot to mention that the people who work there are not very compationate and are very rude to women. If you have any tips to pass on please do so?
Reply to
Denise Malas
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You have a vehicle that is 12 years old. Are all your problems related to leaks???? If the system has deteriorate and you replace one part, the next part that is weakest may leak especially when ambient temperatures go up. You have not mentioned anywhere in this post what was done except the one time you heard a hissing noise. If it is due to leaks a dye test would have shown the leaks, was that ever performed? STAR is more or less an input for data that builds up over time, they are suppose to be actual technicians with a little mechanical ability to assist with problems.Basically if they cant give you an answer they refer you to a problem that may have been fixed similar to the one you are having.

Glenn Beasley Chrysler Tech

Reply to
maxpower

Reply to
Denise Halass

This sounds pretty bad. You might want to look up mechanics that treat women politely.

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has some. There may be others. Rudeness is usually sign of incompetent and/or dishonest workers, be it mechanics or anyone else.

Leaving your van a mess is a sure sign that the repairs were too complicated for them to do properly. They just may be a bit stupid. It happens. One dealership in Newport, Rhode Island I would call close to certifiable morons. A rich place with very angry, very incompetent mechanics. But they did not care since there were many millionaires around there who could care less about repairs that were pennies to them.

old van. Why? First it's going to be a big problem with vans where many things can go wrong after 12 years. Also, their mechanics may not be up to speed on vans from 1994. I definitely sense this from the dealers near me. They are good but they really don't want to mess with my 1994 van. In fact, they refused to do some repairs because things will go wrong and they are afraid to be liable. So I look into independent mechanics or even private mechanics who work out of their own places. I ask around.

About your problems, I don't know where you live but you need to look up the statute of limitations. Where I live, it's only two years although that starts counting from when the problems began, which could be two years ago. Sometimes you can take them to small claims court. You'll need to do a little research and get at least one independent mechanic to certify that they caused so much in repairs for incompetence.

If they mess up again, you might want to do what one fellow did near me. He picketed the place. Even got an article in the local newspaper. I can see it now. Chrysler is discriminating against women. Chrysler is cruel to women. Chrysler does not depend on its products and stand behind them. Chrysler is rude, crude, and dirty. Chrysler is the anti-Christ. Daim Chrysler! Be creative :) Or cry some more. It worked the first time and it's certainly not confrontational as my suggestions.

My air-conditioning just went south yesterday in my 1994 Voyager. I guess I won't be asking my favorite Five Star Dealer to fix it after reading your post. It's a bummer. I don't have power windows so roll up, roll down, roll up, roll down...

I gather you did not need a shot of freon? Are you sure that they did not cheat you in this regard? I realize there are seals but the first course of action is a shot of refrigerant, is it not? Something may be really wrong here. You need to check for outright fraud, then incompetence, and finally, bad luck, but a dirty van is a very bad sign that these are dirty people.

Reply to
treeline12345

I have never had a lot of luck with dealerships. My borther used to work at one that basically was ripping people off. You bring in your car for an oil change and they would use your car for delivery and pick-up runs that day, and never bother doing the oil change! And some of the guys driving the cars were racing with them....

Like I said my borther USED to work there. He left in total disgust.

I believe it is true, dealers are way more interested in selling you a new minivan than fixing your old one! In their eyes, that old van is costing them profit! HOW DARE YOU drive a 12 year old car! Cars are only supposed to last 5 years! Didn't you know???? If they jack you around enough, and blame it on your "old" van, then you are much more likely to buy something new or at least newer! And if they figure you are a woman who knows nothing about cars, then you would trust them, right?

I have a 94 Grand Caravan with over 180,000 km on it. I love it. I gave up on the body a long time ago! It seems like every time I come out of a store, there are 3 or 4 more dents in it! People just don't give a shit about other peoples property! I was going to get the dents fixed, but by the time I got around to it, my van looks like a war zone! So, as much as it pains me, why bother? If I get it fixed, some asshole with a big farm truck will just park beside it and trash the $2000 that a decent paint job and prep will cost me.

I did have some minor A/C problems on my van. The first year, I got it recharged. That lasted about a year. Then it did not work, so I thought "another recharge???". Well, no. Initially my shop told me compressor - $1200. But as they examined the system, they found the pressures were all "off" despite what appeared to be close to a full charge of refrigerant! It turned out to be a part that is in the system that is used to remove moisture from the system - a "dessicant" canister. It was completely clogged and would not allow refigerant to pass through it!. So... Evacuate the system. Replaced all seals and the dessicant canister, use the dye test to check entire system for leaks - all AOK. Do a full evaucation and recharge of the refrigerant! About $300 IIRC. That was 2 years ago, and the system is still working! :)))

What this boils down to - to me at least - is a combination of fraud and incompetence on the part of the dealership. They could care less about you, and see you as a woman with a checkbook - hopefully a big enough checkbook to buy a new van!

I take my van to an independant shop. I found out about them strictly by "word of mouth" from a woman who got treated well their. She was literally a Blonde with a Checkbook. And they never took her for a single penny. She was a single mom with bad finances, and they even allowed her to make payments on her repair work so she could have her car to get to work and look after her daughter! This shop has had MANY opportunities to take me for a lot of dollars, and - true to form - has NOT done so! They get almost all my busines! And, believe me, I tell ALL my friends about them. Oh yeah, locally one of the local papers runs a "best of..." reader poll. Readers nominate things like the best chinese food restaurant, the best jewelry store, the best.... auto service shop! When I first went in I noticed this shop took the "Readers Choice Award" year, after year, after year! I have NEVER seen them advertise. The don't have to! They are ALWAYS busy. Small wonder why! :)))

Let this be your last transaction with a dealer. Look around. Ask people. Check with the Better Business Bureau! Start hunting for a shop. Keep looking until you find one that you like, and then stick with them. IME, you will be way better off in the long run.

Now for a few things, you usually want to consider specialty shops. Transmission work is one case. And A/C is another. It just so happens my shop as a competant A/C technician. But failing that, I have in the past gone to shops that specialize in A/C service and repairs. Check the yellow pages and the BBB. Ditch the dealer. Get a qualified shop to fix it once and for all, then sue the dealer in small claims for the cost of getting it fixed right, plus money for your pain, suffering, and inconvenience! And while you are at it, how about sueing them for the cost of a new paint job! The van was in perfect condition before they got their paws on it, so why should YOU suffer as a result of the dealers incompitance? Get the specialty shop to write you a report that you can use in court. Their "expert" opinion should be sufficient

Good luck.

Reply to
NewMan

I will key a car parked that way every damn time. If you are so worried then park in the back of the lot. I have keyed dozens of cars for this since it is so completely rude and selfish. Once again, if you dont want dings in your shiny new depreciation machine then park in the back.

Reply to
RM

I won't intentionally damage someone else's vehicle, but I may park my old pickup so close that they can't get into theirs. :-)

Matt

Reply to
Matt Whiting

What for? She claims she's not paid one penny since 2003. Right?

Anyway, the short answer is that if you're not a millinonaire, you shouldn't be getting repairs made at a dealer. You need to get to know some folks that have to live and die by word-of-mouth. There are generally honest independents in any town who specialize in A/C.

Reply to
Joe

Yes. Auto A/C does not last forever. It is not uncommon for it to do this sort of thing in an older vehicle. Most people simply keep adding refrigerant, they buy the refrigerant cans from the auto parts place for about $5.

I do my own A/C work since it is so expensive to have someone do it. And in my opinion you originally had a leak most likely from the compressor shaft seal. They all leak after time, this is a very difficult area to seal just by design. What probably happened is they put in a reman compressor. Reman compressors do not last as long as the original. 3 years is about average, and really good reman may last 5 years but it's hard to find really good remans. A brand new compressor only lasts about 10 years or so.

AC hoses also cannot be expected to last more than a decade either. What happens is over time the rubber in the hose gets hard. Then the rubber cracks at the transition from the rubber hose to the aluminum metal fitting and it leaks. There is nothing that can be done to stop this since it's underhood heat that makes the rubber hose get hard.

It would be a lot better if auto A/C systems used a sealed compressor like a home system or refrigerator uses. Such a sealed compressor is powered by electricity. But you would have to have a separate alternator on the engine to just make power for the compressor. So automakers instead just drive the compressor off of the crankshaft. As a result you cannot seal the compressor that well since a spinning shaft has to go into the compressor from the outside. In a home system, only wires that don't move go from the outside to the inside of the compressor.

There is only one way to get your system renewed to the point that it would last another 10 years. And that would be to replace every active part in the system, accumulator, compressor, etc. with brand new parts, remove and replace every O-ring at every joint, flush out all metal A/C lines, replace all rubber lines And that would be cost-prohibitive. And you have no guarentee it would work since the metal lines in the vehicle are all 10 years old and at any point one could crack due to metal fatigue due to age. So to really do it would mean replacing all metal lines and the evaporator and condensor too. Replacing the evap means tearing apart the dash. Your looking at at probably a $5,000 job to do all that. That is why nobody does this, espically on a vehicle with a book of probably $2000-$3000 max.

A $1200 A/C job is going to get you just the parts that are broken and leaking, replaced. And the only reasonable expectation anyone can have if you do this kind of repair is that it will last 1-2 years, anything beyond that is found money and your lucky. That is why so many older cars have busted A/C. And it is also usually why A/C work is at max warranted for a year.

Ted

Reply to
Ted Mittelstaedt

I don't like arrogance either, but I hope you get caught doing that some day and get thrown in jail. How is your keying a car any different than someone who doesn't like SUV's slicing the tires on Hum V's sitting on a dealer's lot, or burning down the delaership? Talk about arrogance, brother - you have it in spades.

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')

Reply to
Bill Putney

Hi...

Can't help thinking that if the right people catch him doing it, being thrown in jail might be a blessing :)

Take care.

Ken

Reply to
Ken Weitzel

Glad to finally meet someone who has never done wrong, and has the perfect life without any problems. i am quite sure i can find plenty of disgusting things in your life that you would never share on usenet. I am positive many people here feel the same way i do and either wont admit or would be scared to stand up. If you find a little revenge for social rudeness disgusting i hope you never come into the real world where life is much much worse. You are right, Walmart, etc is private property and if they want to park their trucks sideways up front that is their right and i will move out of the way for them. Asshole mercedes driver parking across 2 spots when there is little parking available is not on his own private property but out in public where there needs to be some consideration. You want your shiny dick replacement kept unscratched then park sideways at home or park in back. If i were to go to his house and scratch or dent in his driveway that would be disgusting, do it out in public on purpose then you are fair game.

I got news for you: 3/4ths of the people walking by someone like that deeply want to do the same thing, but are too scared.

Reply to
RM

I'd bet that 3/4ths of the people walking by someone like that have grown up. (aka. know right from wrong)

Reply to
aarcuda69062

No - but you clearly have serious problems if you want to rationalize damaging people's personal property like that. So the person whom you criticize for parking sideways to take up two parking spaces - they can say to you, as you just said to me, "Glad to finally meet someone who has never done wrong, and has the perfect life without any problems". Don't get me wrong - I don't defend them doing that. But we do have laws. What you are rationalizing yourself doing is both illegal and immoral.

So let's see - if I followed you around and found something that you did that was in the category of "social rudeness" (your term), then I would be justified in damaging your property to punish you for it. OK - I find keying people's cars socially rude (among other things). So, by your own logic, I would be justified in kicking in your fender since you did something that I considered socially rude. So where does it end? (rhetorical question)

I doubt it, but for sake of argument, so what.

No - there are likely *not* many people here who feel that way. Why would they be scared? What could I or anyone else here do to them that would make them scared. I think the problem is that you're simply a moron. (There - I was socailly rude, so I guess you can come key my car.) Anyone who feels that you're a great guy for keying nice cars has no reason not to express their feeling.

You obviously know nothing of my life to say that. You'd be surprised what I have seen in my lifetime.

You're rationalizing again. I was simply using your own argument that a car on private property is off limits - but you are now stating that you don't even believe that (sign of immature thinking - you haven't relly thought it thru very far). And forgive me for asking an intelligent question, but why do you think that if someone's car is on *public* property, that gives you the right to intentionally deface it (in spite of laws and standards of decency that say otherwise (and to say that you have the moral and legal right to violate someone else's rights if they violate someone elses is not an acceptable answer. IOW - if I see you run a stop sign, I can't justify (legally or otherwise) pulling out a gun and flattening your tires, or following you to your destination, waiting until you can't see me, and then keying your car.

Oh really. Psyciatrists would call that pathological. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and just assume at this point that you are a very young person who has not yet had the opportunity to have someone act arbitrarily on you or your personal property, because you obviously haven't thought your life philosophy thru very far at all (or perhaps don't have the mental capability to do so, but that's a whole other problem). But that's why we have jails. And yes - I do hope you get caught. In jail, some people's idea of "personal property" gets rather interesting. Someone's likely to key your ass! :)

I wouldn't use the word "scared" for that. There's lots of things that normal people think about doing (like, say, stealing money) but have the intelligence and self control to realize that it's (a) wrong, and (2) illegal and therefore don't do it. Indications are that you are lacking that same moral compass and self control not to act on things that are clearly wrong.

In this context, there are three kinds of people on our streets: (1) Those that would do the right thing (or not do the wrong thing) whether there's a law about it or not. These people have intelligence and principles. (2) Those that don't do certain things (like rob banks, rape women, key people's cars) only because there are laws against it and if they think they might get caught, they wouldn't want the penalties or embarrassment

- these people are generally OK to have around, but watch out if you're ever in a situation in which it is perceived that there is no law that they have to answer to (Joseph Stalin, Sadam Hussein, etc., etc., etc.) (3) Those that will break the law if they think they can get away with it. It doesn't do any good to have laws for them other than you can get them off the streets with them because they do what their impulses tell them to do whether it's keying a car for a stupid reason that they will rationalize as justified, or rape their sister or daughter, or whatever will make them feel good at the moment if they think they can get away with it.

And before you say it - *no* - I don't equate keying a car with murder or rape. So don't try the diversion of focusing on that.

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')

Reply to
Bill Putney

I will jump in here now and say this: keying a car for double parking is wrong, but it is also true that the double parking is wrong too and shouldn't be left unremarked.

I think the problem here is that the punishment (keying) is far out of proportion to the crime (double parking) But that does not mean that there are not punishments that are available which do fit the crime.

For example, if he was woman, he could pull out a lipstick from his purse and write "ASSHOLE DOUBLE PARKER" across the windshield. This will not permanently damage the double parker, but lipstick is a PIA to remove, and a bright red one is sure to be embarrassing.

Doing the same thing except using the paint-on shoe polish that comes in a bottle with the sponge, across the windows, is another along these lines. No permanent damage, but it takes time to clean.

Or simply pulling out a bottle of hand cream/suntan lotion/KY Jelly and smearing the drivers windshield is another one. Or doing the same thing with a handful of mud.

Or simply pick up a couple handfuls of dirt, and dump them on the hood.

Or you could simply hock a big lugie on the drivers windshield. (spitting) Disgusting but not permanently damaging.

There are lots of ways you can register your annoyance with boneheads that pull stunts like double parking in the front of a parking lot. Where your crossing the line is doing something like keying that does permanent damage. The double parking is not a permanently damaging crime and does not deserve that kind of response.

Ted

Reply to
Ted Mittelstaedt

tell me about it - i've still got flecks of it on my civic from when I got mrried, a bit over 3 years ago.

Reply to
flobert

Doesn't get Bill as worked up though. I love "Holier than thou" people, they are fun to play with. i usually do just leave notes but when someone gets all worked up I like to string tehm along. Should go to the gun groups and string the gun grabbers. They get really upset and vitriolic.

Reply to
RM v2.0

Ahh - you're one of those master-baitors.

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')

Reply to
Bill Putney

I wish, I am but the student-baitor.

Reply to
RM v2.0

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