flexible fuel?

Hi...

Reading Chilton, which makes reference to "flexible" fuel, and suggest different oils to use if burning it.

Never heard of flexible fuel... maybe just a different expression usacanada? Possible they're referring to what we might call gasohol? (which I do use)

Thanks, and take care.

Ken

Reply to
Ken Weitzel
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Great way to misinform yourself. Chilton manuals -- like Haynes manuals -- are full of factual and procedural errors.

Yes. If you have a FFV (Flexible-Fuel Vehicle) you need to use engine oil that is formulated for use in such engines.

The term refers to vehicles capable of running on up to 85% methanol blended with gasoline (M85). There are many changes made to the vehicle's engine, fuel system and engine management system to permit the use of this highly corrosive fuel, which contains significantly less energy per unit volume than gasoline. All vehicle components that come into contact with fuel liquid or vapor must be made of significantly upgraded materials compared to standard gasoline cars. This affects the fuel tank, fuel pump, fuel lines, fuel filter, fuel injectors, fuel rail, evaporative emission control canister, vacuum lines, fuel gauge sender, all system seals, all engine upper seals, and other parts. There is a fuel specific-gravity sensor that detects the proportion of gasoline vs. methanol and sends that information to the engine control computer, which adjusts spark and fuel curves to suit. There are internal engine materials differences, as well.

M85 is unavailable in most locations across North America.

No, gasohol contains up to 10% *ethanol*, which is different and considerably less corrosive than methanol. Not the same thing at all.

If you have the choice to use plain gasoline or gasohol, and you use gasohol, you are costing yourself money.

DS

Reply to
Daniel J. Stern

Hi Daniel... (got it right this time :)

Thanks for the explanation; appreciate it.

Should it happen to interest you or anyone, the reasons behind my preference for gasohol are several.

Being long retired, for six months of the year I go almost nowhere. The bank, Doctor, and grocery store once makes a 2 mile trip every week or two... so a tank lasts a very, very long time :) I'm pretty well convinced that gasohol is much more stable than plain gas. I also think it keeps fuel system components a little cleaner. Right?

If the cost is entered into it, our price for gasohol is virtually the same as gas. (I think government subsidized). And I needn't add gas anti-freeze, so I save the cost of a dollar or two per tankful.

Most important... I'd far, far sooner contribute to the work and income of our farmers than add to the strife going on over oil.

Finally, even though ten percent is miniscule, a lot of 10%'s add up. Better to burn up renewable resources than waste any at all of the non-renewable stuff. Our great great grandkids might appreciate it :)

Thanks again, and take care.

Ken

Reply to
Ken Weitzel

Wrong. Gasohol is considerably *LESS* stable than plain gasoline, in several ways. It has a shorter "shelf" life before it begins to deteriorate. The deterioration takes place at a faster rate. And, there are several situations in which the alcohol can fall out of solution with the gasoline, at which point not only have you got that direct problem to deal with, but you've got extremely hygroscopic (absorbs water) alcohol doin' its thing in your fuel system.

That's grand, but because gasohol contains less energy per unit volume than gasoline, you burn more of it to go any given distance. The effect upon fuel economy is larger than would be predicted by calculations showing that the energy content difference is approximately 3-1/2 percent.

You needn't do that anyhow.

DS

Reply to
Daniel J. Stern

Reply to
jdoe

No, Flexible-Fuel Vehicles are those which are specially prepared to run on METHANOL blends.

Do some research and educate yourself before making an ass of yourself with guesses and assumptions.

Reply to
Daniel J. Stern

Here:

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(Be sure to read the story linked at the bottom of the page)
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There *are* Ethanol-fueled vehicles, lots of them, especially in Brazil. But, the original poster asked about the "Flexible Fuel Vehicle" term in the context of '90s Chrysler products, and that means Methanol.

Reply to
Daniel J. Stern

I beg to disagree, sir. My guess is that FFV can refer both to E85 and M85 vehicles.

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Reply to
Peter

If your vehicle is not designed to burn flex fuel don't use it. It could cause drivability problems, hard starts and can cause the check engine lite to come on. Also those vehicles were designed differently to prevent corrosion of the fuel system and the sensors to determine the amount of methanol. And as Mr. lite Bulb Stern said, it does require a special oil in the engine.

Glenn Beasley Chrysler Tech

Glenn Beasley Chrysler Tech

Reply to
maxpower

Yes, it *can*, but in the case we're talking about in this thread (mid-'90s Chrysler FFVs), the referent alcohol is *methanol*.

Reply to
Daniel J. Stern

As a long time user of "gasohol" I am surprised at this statement. I personally have been using Mohawk/Husky gasohol in Canada since the mid 1980s. I have NEVER heard of, nor have i experienced this! I know of users of gasohol in manitoba, saskatchewan, Alberta and British Columbia - and they have the same comment. No such problem exists. I have spoken with colleagues In Minnesota as well and they shrug their shoulders too: What problem??

Please state where you received such information. Documentation??

WE all seem to like the fact that gasohol absorbs water as in the winter we DO NOT suffer from gas line "freezing" at about -25C and again at about -38C that seems prevalent in ordinary gasoline. The vehicles start and run - burning the gasoline-alcohol-water mixture as if there were NO water.

True, gasohol does contain less BTU per volume than gasoline, but in a 2 mile trip the engine is not warm enough to burn gasoline efficiently and PLENTY of unburned gasoline goes out the exhaust of cold gasoline powered vehicles. Half way into the city I smell RAW gasoline coming from the exhaust of cars. You cannot tell me they are running efficiently, nor can you tell me with any degree of certainty that there polluting cars are burning "gasohol".

My wife's Volvo and my old Caravan/Voyager show no difference between gasoline and gasohol in the winter while driving in the city. No difference. Period. My son's 2002 dakota is the same - no difference in a Winnipeg winter either. The engines simply do NOT get warm enough to be thermally efficient when doing short (less than 10 km) stop-start trips in traffic going to school/work in the morning.

Highway driving for over 50 miles shows a modest improvement in mpg when using gasoline - and that is as you say because of more thermal energy in gasoline than in alcohol or an alcohol-gasoline blend. Then of course you also have to look at the "oxygenation" factor and which fuel generates more CO2, etc per km or mile travelled. But then, on the highway we would be better off using a diesel engine!

Dan PLEASE substantiate your statement: "And, there are several situations in which the alcohol can fall out of solution with the gasoline, at which point not only have you got that direct problem to deal with, but you've got extremely hygroscopic (absorbs water) alcohol doin' its thing in your fuel system." .... so that I can pass it on to both Mohawk and Husky oil production staff, as well as to those North American automobile makers who say that using "gasohol" in their vehicles is "fine" I am sure they could use the benefit of an epiphany.

Depends where you live and how low you let your gas tank get before refilling. Don't let it get below 1/4 full on the USA western prairie states (MN, ND) or on the Canadian prairie provinces (MB,SK, AB) - otherwise you will get gas line freeze up usually on some miserably cold day in traffic! I see it every winter. Do you, Dan?? Not pleasant for the driver freezing his/her ass off. :-(

To those Easterners who have absolutely NO idea what this experience is like - come out west this winter and experience gas line freezing. Oh yes, before you do, make sure you install a "block heater" - otherwise your vehicle won't start unless you have synthetic oil with 5W- or 0W- designation. Seen it here too :-)

Ken Winnipeg, Manitoba, canada

Reply to
Ken Pisichko

Come on Dan. We know of your expertise. However, don't become vulgar too.

I bet MY dad is bigger than YOUR dad. So there!

Please put me in YOUR "plonk" bin, but everyone else will read my humble scribblings while you put your head in:

a) the sand, or b) a place where the sun don't shine.

Please be polite. It costs you nothing. :-)

Ken Winnipeg, Canada

Reply to
Ken Pisichko

OP never said it's mid-90s Chrysler FFV... it was you uourself who brought up the mid-90s Chrysler FFV example

Peter

Reply to
Peter

Hi... It IS a mid-90's Chrysler (94 LHS).

First ever lifetime non GM vehicle... had never even heard of FFV, but saw in the book the need for special oils with one. Wondered if Chrysler referred to gasohol as an ffv.

Think I understand now, all clear as it gets :)

Thanks everyone.

Ken

Reply to
Ken Weitzel

Hi...

Seeing I was the OP, I just can't resist... :)

Ken Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada :) (Portage and the perimeter)

Reply to
Ken Weitzel

Flex fuel and gasohol are 2 different fuels, E85 is 85% ethonal15% gasoline. Gasohol is 90% gasoline 10 grain alcohol from corn

Reply to
maxpower

Reply to
philthy

Sez the guy who posted;

You're huffing too much brake cleaner there Darryl.

Reply to
aarcuda69062

I was wondering when Dan's Bitch was gonna step in!!

Reply to
maxpower

Your reading disability is regrettable.

Reply to
Daniel J. Stern

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