Minivan heaven

I should have added that it goes to the graveyard with its original elecronic four-speed automatic never having been touched other than oil and filter changes.

Matt

Hi Matt...

Thank goodness your son is unharmed.

A question, if I may? Around here all the youngsters ride in the back seat, even if they're the only passenger, to protect them from having an airbag "punch" them in the face (instead of the chest).

May I ask the general physical size of your 8 year old, and if average for his age how this didn't happen to him?

Thanks, and take care.

Ken

I didn't let him ride in the front until just recently. I forget the exact laws here, but I think it is a combination of age and weight, and I drive in two states frequently (PA and NY) and I'm not 100% sure if they are even the same, however, he is legal in both states. This was only his 3rd or 4th trip in the front ... figures, eh?

He's pretty good sized for his age. He's 90 lbs. and probably close to

The airbag clearly contacted his face, but no worse than most adults from what the emergency room staff said. His injuries were exactly what they expected to see. I thought a lot over the last day about if he'd have been better off in the middle seat, but I really don't think so. When he's back there he's always loosening up his seat belt, sitting sideways, laying down, etc., and it is hard to keep an eye on him when I'm driving, especially at night which it nearly was when the accident occurred (5:15 PM in upstate NY is pretty dark this time of year). Being in the front, I can keep track of him and I'd tightened his belt down before we hit the road as he always leaves it way too loose.

I really don't think he would have faired much better in the back as he'd have likely hit the front seat with his head and may well have had neck injuries. The air bag injuries are very minor by comparison.

The ambulance crew treated him as though he had neck injuries. The neck braced him, back boarded him and put him on oxygen. Scared my wife half to death when she walked into the ER! I knew he was fine as I'd seen him before he was all dressed up, but he did look pretty bad on the table in the ER.

I'm trying! :-)

Matt

Don't forget the tetnus shot for the puncture wound.

His last one was three years ago and the ER doc said anything with 5 years was fine. The doc couldn't believe it when he asked and my wife pulled my son's immunization record from her pocketbook! She carries all of the kid's records in her pocket book. It is scary in there ... I won't go there! :-)

We think we pieced together what the wound was from. He was playing with a plastic toy bow and arrow right before the impact, but had laid it in his lap, at least that is his last recollection. There is a red welt on his stomach shaped exactly like the suction cup on the mangled arrow and the puncture is a perfect circle on the back of his hand. We also think we see a little skin and blood on the arrow. I'm guessing the air bag pushed his hand into the nock end of the arrow which them pushed into his abdomen. Fortunately, it was a flimsy arrow and buckled in three places before causing serious damage.

Matt

I am pleased hear that there were no serious injuries.

It's nice to know that air bags that are 10 years old will deploy as designed. I have two air bag equipped vehicles ranging from 13 - 15 years, and I wonder if the air bag systems would still work correctly if needed, and not lose their *readiness* over time.

-Kirk Matheson

I read or saw on TV a blurb about this recently. They said that current projections place the shelf life at 20 years miniumum up from the 10 years initially expected. They apparently hold up reasonably well. I never planned to test mine, but they worked as advertised. They sure are fast. I remember the moment before impact and then the next recollection was heading towards the guard rail with the air bag in my lap and a steering wheel that would no longer steer.

Matt

'Course I am glad you two got off lightly (what about the other driver??) and, as regards air bags, I should like to welcome you to the belief system that most of the rest of the world (outside NA) holds...

DAS

For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling

Matt, you can't post that! Why, your ruining the Christmas of all the anti-airbag people on this ng! ;-)

I've always maintained that no matter how good you are at buckling up, you can never insure that everyone in your vehicle does so also.

Glad to hear you didn't ruin your Christmas!

Ted

Somebody had to be the scrooge this year! I wouldn't call me an anti-airbag person in the past, but I certainly was pro-airbag either. I'm much more positive on them now, although I do see their dangers. I'd hate to hit one NOT having my seatbelt also on. That could get ugly.

True, but I think airbags without seatbelts wouldn't be nearly as effective and might actually cause injury. Hard to say, but they are designed as a system and should be used that way.

Thanks!

Matt

Not in the United States - as Daniel Stern has posted, in the EU airbags are in fact designed as a supplement - but the Federal laws in the US require them to be able to stop the forward motion of an unbelted adult in a crash. Thus the bags in the US are much larger and deploy with more force. Apparently the US regulators think the US drivers are more stupid.

Ted

Unfortunately, I think the US regulators are correct in their thinking about US drivers (I hit an example last Wednesday - BAC of 0.16%). However, I think they are incorrect in not considering airbags as a system along with seat belts.

Matt

I would submit that with a decent seat belt system that is USED that airbags are completely unnecessary. While such systems are mandatory for child restraints, apparently the US general public is too clueless to figure out that what's good for the child is even better for the adult. Thus we are stuck with the lap/shoulder belt combo which is not adequate for many kinds of collisions (side impact, for example)

Ted

What seat belts do you think we have outside the US, if not lab/shoulder combos?

In smaller cars the middle rear belt might only be a lap belt.

Season's Greetings one and all! DAS

For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling

I don't disagree much, although crash tests I've seen show the dummies hitting the steering wheel, even with seat belts. And if you had a five point racing harness, that might keep you from hitting the wheel, but at the expense of less give to soften the deceleration. Personally, I think properly designed air bags are a great supplement to a good belt system. Now, if we all wore helmets, then hitting the steering wheel would be a non issue! :-)

Matt

I think that airbags should be designed such that if you are not wearing seatbelts when the airbag triggers, it should remain inflated until it smothers you to death. That would help improve the human genetic pool.

And I thought if we wore body armour it would be a non-issue... but anyway, steering wheels collapse these days, don't they?

DAS

For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling

Yes, my vehicles all have SRS molded right into the steering wheel cover and dash. However, I don't dispute that the government doesn't mandate that air bags be designed as a system. I certainly would suspect though that is the wish of the automakers.

Matt