And it's always the senators and congressmen from the other states that's the problem - eh Bill?
By the way, how is Al Franken doing in Minnesotta? Have they called that race yet?
And what do you think of the way they screwed with Ted Stevens in Alaska?
And are they going to do the same thing with Blagojevich (drop the charges) ?
To me, taxing anything just because you can is no different than piracy, and piracy (taking money that doesn't belong to you just because you can), whether by individuals or a government, is wrong.
I believe in drilling everywhere we can. Prohibiting us from drilling in certain off-shore locations when other entities will drill those same locations has *no* defense, environmental or otherwise. Drill the tiny area of Alaska too. Let's quit artificially limiting the supply of oil.
Also - go nuclear. And don't destroy the coal industry like Obama promised to do.
Preventing drilling and nuclear and destroying the coal industry is just a mechanism (call it a conspiracy if you want, because that's what it is) by the transfer-of-wealth crowd to force *exactly* the things you mentioned.
Throw cap and trade into that mix too. Also include the FDIC threatening to ruin any bank with a five-year audit if they pay back their TARP loans early - you talk about piracy and fascism - we've got it brother!
Caliber. CaliBer. With a B, not a P. Dammit.
A caliPer is a measuring tool. CaliBer is either what a caliPer measures (the diameter of a round object, as in the gauge of a bullet or bore of a gun). Or, as is likely intended by using it as the name of the car, it is a degree of excellence.
Annoys me almost as much as spelling "Dexron" with a T after the X.
snipped-for-privacy@MonsterChillerHorrorTheater.com wrote: Of course, my
Back when I used to actually drive my '49 Plymouth Special Deluxe coupe, it would get around 20-21 mpg. That always amazed me since it has the aerodynamics of a brick, and a whopping 7.0:1 compression ratio and something like a 3.7:1 final drive ratio (it can stay with traffic at 70 MPH, but its not happy there- it would much rather cruise at 60). Skinny tires and a lack of power-robbing accessories make a huge difference in efficiency. If someone would build a Caliber-sized car with no power steering (not needed for a car that small anyway, power brakes (also not needed for a car that small), or power windows, seats, and locks, it could probably push 50 mpg, still have AC, and go like stink.
Steve, Why don't you still drive your 49? Are you a member of an antique car club? My wife and I have been many hundreds of miles on our former 40 Royal Club Coupe, and after the front end gets rebuilt on the 41 Windsor 4 door, hope to drive many hundreds more. Those old flathead
6's and 8's were amazing at how efficient they were. Of course, people would not buy a car without the power accessories today. Our 2007 Caliber is getting 30-31 mpg, and I agree with you: power steering and brakes are not needed on a car this small. Power windows are a good security and convience feature, I don't see how they detract from mileage. As far as I know, the Caliber does not offer power seats, again not needed on any car, as far as I am concerned. I credit the CVT transmission for the excellent mileage and the efficient 2.0 engine."What do you mean there's no movie?"
It got pushed to the back of the priority list when I a) got married, b) got more career demands on my time, c) had a daughter, d) got the '69 Coronet R/T (more my era, but I still love the '49), e) remodeled the house the first time (and its doe for another...) f) the daughter started high school, g) I got the Jeep for the daughter to drive and got all interested in *it*.... In other words, Life happened ;-) I wouldn't trade the life for the car, but I still have it, its stored indoors, and maybe when I retire in a few more years....
I am, but its more a of a '60s car emphasis. Still, there are a few other guys with old flatheads too. Some day...
I just DO NOT understand that. IF anyone would ever *drive* a light car without PS, they'd see that its really unnecessary on light cars and very much detracts from the steering feel. As for power brakes.. heck, I've converted two of my '60s cars to manual disks from power disks, and I really wouldn't go back except maybe on the heavier C-body. The B-body (3800 lb) is perfect with a well chosen ratio of master cylinder diameter to caliper piston diameter. The only price you pay is a slightly longer pedal stroke, but the feel is very precise- more so than the damped feel of power brakes. Our
Just weight. By themselves, power windows wouldn't detract much, but throw in all the other power devices, and things get heavy. I've read that modern power window systems are actually lighter than manual window regulators. Maybe so, but I doubt it by the time you throw in the wiring (copper isn't light) and switches. But the other stuff all adds weight and/or a direct power draw from the engine.
Not to hijack the thread (oops, too late...) tell me about the CVT. I've read that its programmed to have "shift points" like a conventional automatic so that it won't "confuse customers" (I know the masses collectively are stupid, but why do they have to assume everyone is stupid? And un-educatable?) That seems to be corroborated by people who've driven Caliber rentals and when I asked them about the CVT, they say "THAT thing is a CVT?!? I thought it was just the crappiest automatic I've ever driven!" I keep hoping to get a Caliber, Compass or Patriot rental so that I can fool with it myself, but I never have yet. I have heard that the software can be re-flashed to make it behave like a true CVT, and that seems like it would add another 2-3 mpg versus forcing "shift points" that send the engine back down into the lugging zone.
They may have done that in the earlier models, but ours was a later model 2007, August, and it feels like an airplane going down the runway, continuous, smooth power flow. We can cruise at 65 and the engine is running at 2K RPM's. On our way up to 65, we don't feel any shifting of the transmission at all. In my 41, the Fluid Drive acts much like that, smooth power get away, then lift my foot up on the accelerator, shifting into high, not much feeling there, then smoothly up to about 60-65. Mine is the Vacamatic
4 speed Fluid Drive, very smooth, without the "clunk" of the later M-6 electric/hydraulic Fluid Drive of post-war cars.
The Metropolitan was a nice little 2 door car. Too expensive for me then, but I fit in it. Note it was designed by the British Austin designers. The British are our body size.
You obviously haven't driven a FWD car that size without power steering. The smaller early Chrysler Horizons and Ford Escorts didn't have power steering, very difficult for parking.
If I liked the CaliBer styling I'd be more likely to spell it correctly.
Oddly, I sort of like the look of it. It's hearing Mitsu had a remote influence on the platform and engine that ensures I'll stay far, far away. I owned a Sapporo once.
Actually, its exactly BECAUSE of once driving a manual-steering Horizon that I think all small cars *should* be manual steering. It was perfectly acceptable. Heck, A Valiant with manual steering was fine too.
It's a "no brainer" that anything built by Mercedes in any price class will be more expensive than "the masses" will buy, regardless of how small the vehicle might be.
As for SMART for Two, did anybody see the results of the recent small vs mid-size offset-frontal crash tests? The SMART allegedly went airborne after the crash into a small Mercedes car. Dramatics???
Mercedes might have more "cache" than Fiat, but Fiat's fleet is more "green" (i.e., less CO emissions) than any other car company. Their strength is in smaller cars that get really good fuel economy, a place that Chrysler became weak when the Neon was discontinued and replaced by the larger and boxier, heavier, and less fuel efficient Calibre.
The "combination" of Chrysler LLC and Fiat is more beneficial to Fiat than "the merger of equals" was for Mercedes. Fiat needs a North American sales network to plug into and Chrysler has that.
In the end, the hoops that the Auto Task Force is making the car companies jump through will most probably weaken the industry before it recovers. Fewer dealers = fewer total sales = lower corporate profits, even with less corporate overhead = more oppotunities for non-domestic brands to further erode the USA brands of vehicles' market share and seemingly continue the downward spiral rather than end it.
What has happened to the "grow the business" approach to doing business? The Asians seem to have that part of marketing down well, but all that everybody seems to think will save the USA brands is LESS of them and LESS dealers to sell them in FEWER towns of the country? Another example of the non-domestic brands doing "right" as the domestic brands used to do it, but can't do it now due to all of the financial experts saying not to?
Seasoned Chrysler dealers will recall all of the issues with non-Chrysler brands suddenly infiltrating their dealerships. Parts inventories swell with little benefit. Sales training for the new brands of vehicles can be problematic, as can the salespeople's ability to deal with "non-traditional" customers who might never have ever thought they'd be in a Chrysler showroom . . . ever, but are there to look at Fiats.
Ford might be in hock to their eyebrows, but it's to private banks rather than to the government.
I certainly hope that every government operative that advocates "tough decision" or "unpopular choices" might have to deal with decreased or cut penion benefits, decreased insurance coverage, lost wages or a replacement job that pays considerably less than the automotive job the government loan officers took from them. It's one thing for these high-powered government people to say these things MUST be done, but a completely 'nuther thing if THEY are the ones it's happening to.
Regards,
C-BODY
Depends on the country...
In Germany the smaller Mercs (incl C Class) are in the Top 10 sellers, along with BMW and, of course, VW. The Golf is always at or near No. 1.
DAS
To send an e-mail directly replace "spam" with "schmetterling"
This is where Chrysler's logic breaks down.
Yes, those recent small car (micro-car) tests show that they're significantly less safe in a real-world crash situation.
North-Americans have increasingly bought large trucks and SUV's for the past decade primarily for "family protection" reasons rather than practical reasons.
Chrysler's desire to acquire a micro-car line from Fiat will turn into a disaster.
Any such car will not be priced low enough or will deliver high enough milage compared to Chrysler's current small car offerings to offset the percieved or real disadvantages in crash safety or transportation practicality.
Aside from that, we here in North America simply don't need to go the extra step down to something that's Fiat-sized because of the size of our roads, our parking spaces or garages.
Tangent: How much does a Mini Cooper cost, and why don't we see more of them here in North America?
That's the problem with the government dictating to the makers what they will make and market - they're in effect going to tell you what you want and need. You just *think* you know what you want and need.
BTW, I did not include the Smart range, which sells well in larger cities like Rome & London, and is not normally included in Merc-branded vehicles. Top Merc is/was C Class, AFAIK.
As I hadn't looked at the stats for some time I was looking for them. So far could not find the detail but some figures by brand might be interesting. The data is for 2007 and 2008. I suspect 2009 will be skewed towards smaller cars. Plus there will be the 'scrappage' payment effect, which has boosted sales noticeably.
This is the link to the stats
I shall try to find the Top 10 by specific model, but the sun is shining here and I would rather go out with my son...
I don't know the price of a Mini-Cooper. Ask BMW why not more sold in USA... Probably not much call for it when it was British-owned. Not sure it was that reliable and who (other than a few enthusiastic New Yorkers) would want a tiny car in NA? I remember sitting in a Mini next to a London bus. Having the wheels up to my eyeballs did not inspire confidence... Now that the Mini is a conventional car looking like the old Mini and owned by BMW it might sell to San Franciscans, Bostonians and Chicagoans as well... It ain't cheap, AFAIK.
DAS
To send an e-mail directly replace "spam" with "schmetterling"
And doesn't free-market advertising tell you what you think you want??
DAS
To send an e-mail directly replace "spam" with "schmetterling"
FWIW, more stats about the Gerrman car market (the largest in Europe).
As expected, mosr recently there has been a huge swing towards smaller, more economical cars.
Changes Jan - Mar 09 v same period in 08:
Here are the stats for the Top 50 for March 2009 but not ordered by model:
No. 1 is still VW Golf/Jetta
As expected, Merc et al have lost lots of ground in the very recent past. BMW 3 and Merc C Class were in Top 5.
The KBA is the govt vehicle licensing authority. More stats are available for purchase.
For UK I have only data by manufacturer:
In March month and YTD Ford (of Europe) is still at the top, followed by Vauxhall (GM).
The list to no. 26 (Chevrolet) is (sales Mar YTD):
Ford 82 000 (17.2%) Vauxhall 65 000 (13.53%) Volkswagen 39 000 (8.06%) Toyota Peugeot Audi BMW Honda Mercedes-Benz Citroen Nissan Renault Mazda Fiat Hyundai Kia MINI Land Rover SEAT Volvo Suzuki Skoda Jaguar 5 000 (0.95%) Chevrolet 3 000 (0.72%)
If Audi & Skoda were added to VW that group would be no. 1 by a significant margin.
The UK is the main European 'export' market for German manufacturers
DAS
To send an e-mail directly replace "spam" with "schmetterling"
There's a huge difference. One is an advertisement that I can ignore, and I can send a message back to the manufacturer by what I do and do not buy. In the other case, the government is going to decide on whether it favorably or unfavorably treats that particular manufacturer that it essentially now owns according to if the company makes what it says they have to make, not according to what the people want to buy or what's actually best.
One is free market, the other is government run - one is trying to persuade you, the other is by force of government - see the difference?
MotorsForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.