Opinions wanted: 2000 Chrysler 300M or Grand Prix GT?

They'll both be excellent, really. We've had several 3.5L LH cars, and really they've performed wonderfully, but I know a GM 3800 is just as good. We get about 20 mpg around town, which is pretty impressive for a car as big and powerful as a 300M. The back seat may be an area where the M is better than the GP, but I don't have a GP. Just based on looks, I don't think the GP wheelbase is quite as long. For one thing it's not a Bonneville.

I don't think there's any question that the GM transmissions will last longer. You can get to 200K miles with one of those divetrains without any trouble. 300k miles is not unusual. The 3800 also doesn't require timing belt changes.

The 300's got more hp and it's better looking. So there you go.

I have a 99 300M and have owned it over 1 1/2 years and have liked it very much..just recently had to do the Timing belt/water pump/belts/hoses/pulleys/tensioners/etc. at the 100K mile point. That runs around $700 if it's nearing that point. That being said, my sister has a Grand Prix and I'd have to say I'm partial to the 300M. Guess it really comes down to the mileage and price really, but I do think the M is a bit roomer and stylish then the Grand Prix. Only Really big negative I have with the 300M is the blind spots while backing up. The higher trunk deck really gives me a hard time when backing out of spaces sometimes.

Good Luck! Mike

Thanks for the quick replies, both of you!

I really like the looks of the 300M. I think I've fallen in love with it on the outside, but I haven't even taken it for a test drive yet. It's about an hour drive away from me, but the owners will take it in for an inspection this week. The interior of the 300M looks SOOOO much nicer than the GP as well, at least from the pictures I've seen.

I'm kind of used to doing my own maintenance work; any comments on whether the timing belt/water pump/etc is a DIY thing? I just recently did the water pump and radiator on my Jeep. Looking at the pictures, the 300M looks much tighter in the engine compartement, however. Not as DIY friendly. Of course, my Jeep wasn't really DIY friendly either... Extracting the 20 year old bolts that snapped off the water pump was NOT fun. My kids learned a few new words that time!

Both cars have around 160K km's on them (within 5K, just about 100K miles), so they'd probably both be due for a timing belt change, if it hasn't already been done. I do know the GP has had the intake manifold gaskets done, which was a common point of failure on them. The GP owner is asking for more than the 300M, but I think they're smoking drugs, personally.

As far as the dimensions go, according to autos.msn.com, the 300M has an extra 3" on the wheelbase, but only about 1" longer overall. It's about

1.5" wider and higher too. In the interior, they're very close, with the exception of rear legroom, where the 300M gets an extra 4". Gets a bit more hiproom too, but not really enough in any dimension to make a practical difference.

Unless the inspection turns up something really off the wall, I think the

300M will be my target of choice. It's a gorgeous black on black (the GP is red, which is nice too, but not my style as much). I'd post a link to the ad, but I don't want to jinx it! :)

Clint

My sister has a 300M also and it has been pretty reliable so far. I wouldn't hesitate to buy the Grand Prix either though as the 3800 is one of the best engines to ever come out of GM.

A few thoughts on the Chrysler: They seem to eat the end links on the sway bar for breakfast Power window assemblies aren't what they should have been. Power lock actuators croak and make a horrible noise when the doors lock (quite startling when they autolock at 15mph. The trans is picky about maintenance. Make sure it has had the fluid changed often and with the right fluid The A/C Evaporator breaks and costs a fortune to fix. Hopefully the one you are looking at has already had that replaced.

A few thoughts on the GM: Intake manifold (plastic) warps around the EGR and leaks coolant in to the oil which wipes out the bearings. Have to keep an eye on it and quickly find out where any water is going.

I do all my own work as well but when the belt needed to be done on the 300 I had it done. Maybe it isn't as tight as it looks but from a visual inspection I decided I just wasn't poor enough to put myself through that.

The fact that it has had the gaskets done would make me a little nervous. If they let it leak for a while before those gaskets are done serious damage could have been done to the bearings. I have also heard a lot of complaints of repeat failures on this problem so don't assume it is fixed forever.

I would probably pick the Chrysler for myself as well. Not that I think it is a more reliable vehicle but I do think it is a good car and it is very nice to drive and comfortable. It has a very nice luxury feel to me but it still drives like a sportier car.

Steve B.

60K miles on our '02 300M without a problem there.

Agreed. One of ours was fixed under warranty.

Ours just click fairly loudly. That feature can be turned off anyway.

60K miles, serviced regularly by dealer, and changing transmission fluid has never been suggested (although they do keep trying to get us to get the fuel injectors "serviced").

Never had to replace ours, but we did have the transmission fluid cooler replaced about 3K miles ago because it was leaking. All we paid was the $100 deductible on the 7yr/75K warranty that we got as a freebie when they were making way for the '03 models. Similarly for a replacement crankshaft position sensor.

Still on the original tires, which look as though they still have a way to go.

Perce

Over a year ago we gave our 99 300M to my in-laws in Florida. They love it as we did. My wife's siblings live all over the country and drive Infinity's, BMW's and other makes and when they visit my in-laws they all love driving the 300M and can't believe we gave it away. In fact, I bet my wife would consider trading her 2005 Honda Accord hybrid to her parents to get the 300M back.

I would recommend the 300M. Having had a 01 Impala 3.8L, the engine isn't as refined as the Chrysler

3.5L The 3.8L is very old in technology with an iron block and only 12 valves versus the all aluminum 24 Valve Chrysler.

Reliability in regards to the engine were average. I had a coolant leak that had a recall where they would insert walnut shells to block leaks. GM steering is horrible. There is an issue with the intermediate steering shaft. I had mine lubed twice the 5 years that I owned it. Once under warranty and the other time I payed $125. I was told at the second lubing that I would need to have the steering rack replaced within the next few years. That would cost over $1000.00. The transmission isn't as reliable as you would think. I took care of the fluid changes and at 57K the transmission needed a rebuild. Horrible reliability overall.

When they croak you will know it. As a matter of fact the people that live in the house next door will know it. I never heard such a racket come out of such a little device :-)

Steve B.

I would prefer the 300M over the '05 Accord hybrid (designed for power not economy) as well.

Interesting comments. So the similar GM stuff isn't any more reliable and I know how poor the handling and responsiveness of those GM products is. OK for level straight roads. IMO those GM cars are of 80s design.

The 3.8 upper intake fails near the EGR tube and leaks coolant into the intake air stream, not the oil. Been there, done that. The

3100/3400 had the intake gasket failures, which leaked coolant into the oil and/or the driveway. In either case, a 2000 model is likely to have already suffered the failure and been repaired. The concern would be by whom and how well.

Yeah, I thought GM made reliable transmissions but not in my case. After I experienced my transmission failure I read the Lemon Aid book and it mentions that 2000-2003 GM 4T65E having premature failures. The GM 3.8L also sounds thrashy at higher RPMs.

People already get confused about 300 and 300M. I think you mean the 300M.

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')

I first started working on cars in the 70s when the words "reliable" and "GM transmission" didn't exist in the same universe, let alone the same sentence. My wife's Cavalier she had when we got married did nothing to change that opinion.

Its still hard for me to get my brain around the idea that GM ever made an automatic transmission more reliable than a Chrysler auto tranny, but in the case of 90s vintage front-drives, its probably true. I can tell you that comparing the latest GM to Chrysler shift quality in the scads of rental cars I've had over the last year, Chrysler has moved FAR far ahead. The new electronic throttle control that throttles the engine back during shifts is much better programmed on Chryslers than GMs.

A reader might have assumed you didn't know the difference.

BTW, I went and picked up the 300m yesterday. So far, so good! *knock on wood*

Did a 2 hour return trip in it from it's previous home, and all went well. The kids loved the sunroof, having their own windows (until mean ol' Dad locked them), and being able to put in multiple hours of "Crazy Frog" CD's. Dad loved the cushy interior, decent performance, and 29mpg @ 75mph. I'll see how it does on my commute tomorrow.

I know I've got some upcoming maintenance issues, like new spark plugs and timing belt. But the previous owners sunk $900 (CAD) in the car since October of last year, doing full fluid flushes, replacing the battery, etc, so I should be pretty good. No major work on their last invoices, just maintenance. And the rear brake pads need to be done...

Thanks again for the input!

Clint

I may have misremembered on this point: looking at the book to see what is needed at the next service (60K miles), I noticed that changing the transaxle fluid is recommended at 48K miles, so perhaps it did get done as a routine matter and I forgot about it.

Perce