PT recalls question

That type of "customer service" is why many people avoid dealers althogether. With the time wasted and risk of other damage being done not related to the repair, it's generally better to take care of the things you can by yourself. I've received 3 or 4 recall notices on my cars in the last couple of years and, for various reasons, haven't had any of them done. If one were to truly be needed, I would most likely do it myself unless the effort and expense were prohibitive, which would present a dilemma - but so far that scenario has not happened.

I've read too many accounts on forums of recalls being performed to solve a particular problem, and the "fix" doesn't work, or the problem returns shortly. So the time (of dealing with leaving the car with the dealer, etc,) and risk of other damage and creation of new problems was wasted. IOW - too much risk, not enough benefit.

The other part of this is that many of the recall items are insignificant when compared to many of the true safety or huge expense issues that never get addressed (IOW, the system is corrupt): windshield wiper systems that fail to work just when you need them, steering racks that lock up, engines that self destruct in spite of all maintenance requirements having been met, etc.

On things that might really be important, like a child restraint, you might be better off to figure out what the fix is (read the details of the recall, TSB, or whatever), and buy and install the parts yourself. I have found that to be the overwhelmingly more effective and least costly solution.

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my adddress with the letter 'x')

You also failed to mention, that by performing the work yourself, and not letting the dealer does it, makes you a target from a prospective new owner of your trade-in, or should you sell it yourself, and something does happen, in regards to the re-call part not being repaired! A part is re-called for a reason! buying a part at a jobber store, does not mean it meets the criteria to effectively repair the problem. Only the manufacturer knows the engineering specs to correct the problem part. the taiwanese part more then likely does not meet it.

The child seat anchor recall takes about an hour,and the power steering hose recall takes all of five minutes after the vehicle is on the lift,all they are doing to most of them is repositioning the hose that runs accross the left side of the engine,you can see it from the bottom ot has two clamps that are loosened and the hose pushed back and the clamps retightened.if the hose has worn through the rubber lining the hose has to be replaced that takes about an hour and a half here.out of about 250 only 5 have needed replacement. If they tell you they need it longer than 3 hrs or so they are likely busy,I would try another dealer.

B.S. Besides - I rarely sell a vehicle before it has 180+k miles on it.

So then explain why I see multiple posts on LH car forums of the driver's seat bolts being replaced under recall and the problem (seat bolts coming loose) happening again (just one example).

You ignore the other part of my gripe which is that things that truly should be recalled (wiper systems, steering racks, etc.) are not.

Customers are forced to pay for costs of correcting problems that are clearly clearly clearly a design flaw.

I said nothing about buying aftermarket parts. I would buy the parts from the dealer, though I did not say that. But the same can be said of dealer parts in some instances.

Here's one for you: To fix a problem of the oil pressure light coming on at idle, a particular DC TSB prescribes to replace the oil pressure switch and add a wire to the connector body to serve as a vent of the sealed connector. The price at the dealer for the vent wire (comprised of a normal small-gage electric wire and crimped-on connector) is $16 - just for the part that I might be willing to pay $2.50 for! You want me to trust and support such a bogus pricing system as that? And to correct their design flaw to boot?

Or, again, the LH seat bolt recall.

(already addressed the Taiwanese part red herring)

From what I've read, and from what I've seen first hand, I'd say that a lot of recalls are b.s., and several times I've seen where the fix that was prescibed by the recall did not adequately address or did not address the root cause of the problem at all. I've read enough posts on early LH car a.c. evaporator problems that were "repaired" per the recall without success to know that. Often it is clearly the result of a coverup or an honest effort by people who clearly did not understand the problem - so no - I do not accept that the manufacturer knows how to effectively correct the problem. While certainly *somebody* at the mfgr. understands "the engineering specs to correct the problem", the person who came up with the "solution" often obviously does not or does a good job of pretending not to.

Another example: When the clips in LH cars that attach the door glass to the regulator lift plate break (another early design flaw - fixed at customer's expense), how come the dealers try to sell them a whole new glass with clips at $200+ and tell them the clips ($5) are not avaialble separately when there is a TSB put out by DC that says the clips are available?

Need more examples of why I do my own repairs?

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my adddress with the letter 'x')

Find a dealer that allows you to call them in advance, discuss the recalls, assure they will have the parts and will schedule you properly. Keep in mind that many times the recalls can be performed by a Dodge, Chrysler, or Jeep dealer. Don't settle for the one that sold you the vehicle or is simply closest to you.

Bob

David, Take a look at my photos of the OEM and the aftermarket parts in this thread on the 300M Club forums:

Now tell me that the manufacturer knows how to make a better part than the aftermarket. 8^)

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my adddress with the letter 'x')

insignificant

First of all the recliner bolts recall has nothing to do with them coming loose, they are not a hardened steel and can break in the event of an accident, And I have seen alot break just from the weight of the driver

Because when you attach these clips and tell the customer to leave them over nite so the glue will dry and they cant leave it. they disregard the fact that the swithc is taped up and the first thing they do is roll the window down, which in turn pulls the plate away from the glass and in the dealer the next day bitching. so alot of dealers sell the intire glass, I myself have a window for each side with the plates glued and ready to go so that i can sell only the plates and not worry about the glass being rolled down, Thees awhole to it Bill and a reason why things are done that way. keep in mind if the window plates come aprt after I fis it, I have to do it again for free

Need more?

First of all let me say this, Chrysler doesn't give a hoot about the technicians working on the cars, If there is a recall say for instance an oil galley plug on the 4 cyl engines, pays us .4 to do, Chrysler sends you out the letter saying it should take about a half hr to complete, well first of all you bring this nice hot engine into my shop on a summer day and you will sit and wait at least 3 hrs before I attempt to put my hand behind the engine on a hot cylinder head and burn myself trying to fix an oil leak. and there is allot of recalls out there that Chrysler doesn't give a rats ass about. Maybe the dealer you took it to gives a crap about the technicians that perform these half ass recalls

The Child anchor recall you are referring to pays .7 and the form you got says it will take about an hour to do HOWEVER additional time may be needed depending on how the dealer schedules the work!! The P/S hose recall pays .2 to check, if it has a rub mark it needs to be replaced, once again, hot engine on a wait job if this hose needs to be replaced, add a few hours for cool down time plus the time for replacing the hose.

Why not contact Chrysler and complain to them!! the number is on the form

1-800-853-1403

Glenn Beasley Chrysler Tech

Actually I was thinking of the seat drive block screws that come loose and get replaced - which was a TSB, not a recall - you're right - that is different from the recall for the recliner bolts. But the fix for the block screws doesn't hold. My point was the unreliability of the dealer service and factory fixes.

Sounds like you need to pull the fuse for the windows! 8^)

You're suggesting that the dealers lie about the availability of the clips - not a good policy. In reality I think they simply aren't aware of the TSB's.

That's a smart idea to have the glass with the new clips ready - kind of a core program. I assume you charge them as if you replaced the clips on their glass and reinstalled it - that would be the right thing to do. I'd be curious to know what the complete charge (parts and labor) for replacing the clips vs. replacing with factory new glass (with clips). (Hmmm - I think I just figured out where you got the first glass to start your core program.) 8^)

I've recommended to people on the LH forums to get a glass out of the junk yard and replace the clips with new ones from the dealer to reduce vehicle down time when they are ready to go in for the swap. We've considered similar core programs in the past on windows and oil pans (with stripped drain plug threads) on the 300M Club.

So - do you not agree that the window clip problem is a design flaw?

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my adddress with the letter 'x')

Yes, it looks better. But to say buy the parts yourself is saying, get any part! Then you said you bought the parts from the dealer? well, if the recall is free to the consumer, why buy the part from the dealer? A part over the counter even the dealership is not the same part as the recall part. The recall part is a totally different part number, then the one over the counter. The one sitting on the shelf is probably the same design flawed one that needs to be replaced as part of the re-call. So you just replaced it with the same defective one! And you paid for it and it will probably fail. Just so you know with vehicle recalls, the new part must be sent out as the recall kit, before general supply is replenished. And the dealer does not get to change in his old stock for recall parts. Chrysler automatically ships a certain percentage to dealers for the recall repairs. And they have a specific part number different from the rest so Chrysler can record recall rates for themselves and NHSTA. And a dealer cannot sell recall parts.

And then you sell the car someone gets in an accident because of the defect ( but you fixed it yourself) congrats! Lawsuit coming!

Did that, they say it is a safety thing, put it back, disconnected the widow swithc and tied the wires out of the panel for the customers to reinstall, that used to work, but my way of glueing the plates on the spare windows I have in my cabinet is the way to go, i install the window and the cust pays for the clips

Im looking abd looking Bill and I cant seem to find where I suggested that, I merely explained to you why most dealers do it the way, and yes, many dont know about the plates. MY OPINION ONLY

Where I started the program is when a vehicle is covered by a service contract, they would get the complete window, Chrysler says throw it away amd I make used out of it

I think there are alot of flaws with alot of diffeent vehicles, and the flaw isnt the plates, its the fact that the windows are rolled are the way up and binding them untill they break, My opinion on the Problem is not the plates but the fact there are no upstops to prevent the glass from stopping at the top

Again - I hope you charge for the labor of removing the old clips and gluing the new ones on - I mean, it's not like overhauling an engine, but there certainly is some time involved.

Seemed like you were. I asked why the dealers tell customers that you can't buy the clips separately when there's a TSB that spells it out, and you replied that essentially that was because they didn't want to deal with the problems of dealing with the clips (the customer rolling the window down before the glue cured). It sounded like you meant that they told the customer they weren't available when they knew they were - they just didn't want the customer to know they were available. That's different than saying that the dealer simply didn't know about the TSB. The first case (saying they weren't available when they knew they were) would be lieing, the second (not knowing about the TSB) would be ignorance (not as bad as lieing?). 8^)

Yep - that's kind of what I figured - that, or replaced a window with customer paying and using their old one as a seed for the core system. Nothing wrong with that - helps future customers.

Yeah - it's like they just let the motor stall at full power. Whether it's the clip itself or the overall window system, it would still be a design flaw for such a failure to be so common. I suspect that they did something to improve the strength of the clips (that glue joint between the two halves of the clip) - the replacement ones don't seem to fail like the factory ones - and I'm thinking the failures are not as common on later ('02-'04) years - either they had some process problems that they got straightnened out or they went to a better glue. I replaced the clips on my drivers door 3 years ago, and it's still fine. My guess is that the ones you've fixed don't fail either.

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my adddress with the letter 'x')

My secret to recall success is to not be the first to bring the car in for the repair. I wait about 6 months and figure by then the dealer has the repair down to a science. Just had two recalls done on my 300M...... no problem with either.