Re: American vs German Quality

Is there a PROVEABLE difference in Design, Materials, and Fabrication of

> American vs German automobiles? > > I think is a myth that country-of-origin has any significance whatsoever > regarding the merit of automotive product. There are certain differences, > to be sure; for example: > > The front suspension lower control arms on the old Mercedes sedans appears > to be a forging. American design practice is pressed steel. But is this > significant? Might they both be equal in real quality even though the > forgings are obviously more expensive to produce? Perhaps this is just > overkill. > > On real quality issues, like redundant ignition and fuel system

components,

both are equally deficient. With some mainstream luxury cars approaching > the 100K mark we still see not aircraft design practice. Only aircraft > pricing.

You'd love a 100K aircraft. It buys you technology from the 30's.

Reply to
Bill 2
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Who are you and why do you pose stupid questions to various newsgroups? Just wondering.

Reply to
NewsGroupie

Reliability:

Mass produced vehicles are built with one goal in mind. That goal is is to make a profit for the manufacturer.

Regular maintenance will help you get the most value from any vehicle except perhaps the Yugo.

Anyone should be able to get 100,000 miles or 10 years out of a car today. A well maintained car should give you at least 200,000 miles.

Mercedes has its problems. Ask anyone who has purchased one of their SUV's ( I forget which model recently had so many issues).

Ford had brake rotor warp, head gasket issues, cracked manifolds, and tranny trouble

DCX / Mopar has / had issues with tranny's in minivans, steering racks and A/C trouble in LH series cars. GM has tranny problems, cracked manifolds, electrical trouble and more. Rice can do no wrong. Tell that to the guy next door the next time his Honda won't start and get him to work. A chronic problem no one can fix.

Pick your poison.

Steve

Reply to
Steven Fleckenstein

What about when his Honda's transmission quits? Or maybe when his Camry's engine is filled with sludge.

Mitsu, well, they're just junk.

VWs on the otherhand come pre-disassembled.

Reply to
Bill 2

It is provable, that it is in people`s minds. Over here, people say It"s full of plastic." when they think of american cars. What they forget .. a mercedes is full of plastic too - it only looks different.

Reply to
Hans Mücke

I used to believe that German autos were much more reliable than their American counterparts. However, after having friends that have owned Mercedes', Audi's, and water-cooled Volkswagons with their various problems, I don't feel that way anymore. The old air-cooled beetles had a reputation for being reliable, most likely due to there very simple design.

I don't have any friends that own or have owned BMW's.

-Kirk Matheson

Reply to
Kirk Matheson

I have two VW's. a Dodge minivan, and a Mercury Grand Marquis. I've had very little trouble with any of them. There is no reason not to believe Consumer Reports' and J.D. Powers' findings that certain makes of Japanese cars have the best quality. The thing is, the quality of all cars has improved so much over the last 20 years that, with any luck, you can buy any brand, take care of it, and have a reliable car. According to C.R. et. al., VW is among the worst of brands of cars sold in the U.S., but my Jetta diesel wagon has had zero problems in a year and 14K miles.

I had a Lexus IS300 SportCross, and it was not only completely reliable, but the fit and finish were perfect. The "total quaility" of that car was, in fact, better than that of other cars I've had. After having it a few years, I replaced it with the Jetta because I was ready for something different, and which would use half as much fuel. Many people might be surprised to know that the general appearance and comfort of the VW's interior is comparable to that of the Lexus IS300. The IS300 is more "sport" and less "luxury" oriented than other Lexii, but it, and current VW's have very nice interiors.

Reply to
KokomoKid

Both JD Powers and Consumer Reports have said that the reliablity of German cars has become terrible. The Chrysler division products have scored much better that Mercedes division products in the last couple of years.

Reply to
General Schvantzkoph

Hi everybody, I am probably one of the few Germans who, after driving several German made cars (Fords, Audi, Smart) and one Honda, bought 3 American cars. I live in a neighborhood where everybody else works at the local Mercedes plant and drives Mercedes. Not me. I don't like car trouble.

Yes, I agree, the overall quality of German cars has deteriorated considerably (see my neighbors complaing about the frequent electronic issues of their cars), and, at the same time, the the price of an average German car rose to unprecedented heights. There is an unholy race going on among the car designers who put more and more electronic gadgets into the cars and at the same time neglect quality control because it costs money.

With the Audi, I had frequent minor troubles with the engine (carburator) , the brakes, and the odometer, and the transmission that failed completely. The Honda showed excessive wear on the rocker arms after only 60.000kms, the alternator had to be replaced twice, too. Very expensive!! Both German Ford's steering mechanisms went completely out at 80.000kms and had to be replaced. About 900$ each. They also had frequent minor mechanical problems. Worst car ever is the Smart (a Mercedes affiliate). It is virtually falling aparts when you drive it. You never know what is coming off next. Repairs are very costly, because it is maintained by Mercedes.

I first came across an American car when I was looking for a spacious van for familiy transport. I ended up with a 98 Ford Windstar (I had a German Ford station wagons before), which was considerably cheaper, more powerful, and more luxurious than its German counterpart van, a co-production of VW and Ford. Well, the Windstar never let me down, and the only trouble I had within 100000 kms was a speed sensor acting up. No big deal. Maintenance costs were low as well. I sold it when the kids wanted to go their own ways.

After my good experiences with the Windstar I bought a Chevrolet Trailblazer, which is quite an exotic model here. I was very pleased by its comfortable ride and the powerful engine. I prefered it to the BMW X5 which was 20.000 Euros (=22.000$) more or the Toyota (same price as the BMW). I use to drive her very hard on the Autobahn (no speed limit!!) and she's pulling my big trailer without problems. No issues so far, its 2 years now with 43000kms on the odometer. Very good built quality, very solid construction.

Just recently, I bought a Chrysler Sebring Convertible for my wife (she loves it) and I hope it will be as reliable as the Trailblazer and the Windstar.

Conclusion: there is no reason for buying German or Japanese Too many issues, too expensive, bad reliability.

Reply to
A.Muewi

You're not the only one.

Take a look here at Peter Wendt's page:

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This is what happens when lawyers and business-degreed idiots rather than engineers are permitted to direct car companies.

DS

Reply to
Daniel J. Stern

Perhaps it's not only American vs. *German*, and perhaps not only very recently. Several years back I met a guy from Ford Australia who told me that they had shipped some Fairlanes (Ford Australia kept reusing that name even when the car bore no resemblance to any US-built Fairlane and when the name had long fallen out of use in the US) to Sweden, and the locals had pronounced them far superior to Volvos.

Perce

On 11/30/04 03:41 pm A.Muewi tossed the following ingredients into the ever-growing pot of cybersoup:

Reply to
Percival P. Cassidy

Don't quite get it. Sustantial complaints about problems and dealers as well as plaudits.

DAS

Reply to
Dori A Schmetterling

The way the dollar is sailing down the Sebring Convertible will make a very cheap replacement for my CLK Cab....they just need to modernise the folding roof design...

DAS

Reply to
Dori A Schmetterling

The Australian Ford line contains numerous world-class vehicles, including a full range of up-to-date RWD passenger cars and utes with vastly better performance, economy, ergonomics, emissions and safety than anything Ford sells in the rest of the world. Australia gets a RWD Falcon with 4-litre inline Six (normally aspirated, turbo or supercharged), thoroughly modern in all respects. North America gets the Five Hundred, a warmed-over Taurus.

There ain't no justice.

Reply to
Daniel J. Stern

Surprise, surprise, surprise...Dori doesn't get it.

Go back to sleep, dearie. Sorry to wake you.

Reply to
Daniel J. Stern

Warmed over Taurus?? I was having my Taurus serviced and saw a 500 on the show line. Hmm, says I, that's nothing but a re-badged Taurus. Dealer asked if I wanted to look at it. I did. It isn't a warmed over Taurus at all, it has a -lot- more room inside, has one of the biggest trunks and is (according to him) based on a volvo platform. Yes, it does bear a resemblance to the Taurus (big strike against) but I don't think it has any Taurus in it. For sure not in the engine/drive train components (again according to the salesman).

Harry K

Reply to
Harry K

Engine (3.0L Duratec) is the same as the upgrade engine from the Taurus lineup. Other than that, not much similar between the cars. It's built on a Volvo platform IIRC, but Daniel insists that it's the same car.

Reply to
Bill 2

Fabrication

Car is still young, give it another 100K

Reply to
Bill 2

Wow, an Spirit was up to a European's standards.

When he mentioned "3.0L V6" and " 4-speed automatic gearbox" I was curious that it was his favorite car. Then he mentioned the obligatory transmission failure, which satisfied me.

It's a shame the first one was written off with such little (apparent) damage.

I also thought it was strange that people would find it odd looking. I've always found the car very non-offensive looking.

Reply to
Bill 2

Back then VW people had a different idea of reliable. They had the old air-cooled engines rebuilt every 60,000 miles, maybe a few extra valve jobs thrown in between. I guess that was considered reasonable because the overhaul bill was $200. But I agree, everybody considered them reliable, even though the engine components had no longevity. The simplicity was a big part of that. If it broke down it was always something very simple. Plus, one frat boy could push it.

That said, the dribble fuel injection was a big kick in the head for air-cooled VW's. That just ruined the car's rock-simple reputation. They were still popular, but the attitude of people buying them was a lot different. I've never heard anybody say anything good about that change.

So when you look at these realities, no to mention the exhaust-fume defroster that could kill you, you can see it wasn't that good of a car.

Reply to
Joe

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