Re: American vs German Quality

Personally 3.

One guy is on his 5th CV, his last one had 400 000km and he only got rid of it because it was written off in a crash. It burned a little oil but other than that it was fine.

Another guy drives a cab. He used to drive a CV and got 450 000 km trouble free. Last he saw his car (which another cab driver bought), it had another

200 000 km on it. His wife drives a Lincoln Towncar. She has 600 000km trouble free. Many people he knows in the cab industry swears by CVs.

A third guy has had several CVs and found them quite reliable. He only got rid of them because he wanted a new car.

Plus look at any reliability ratings. Not only the supposedly biased-against-American CR, but any reports on the internet, etc. CV gets high marks for reliability.

I don't know what fleet managers you were talking too, but everyone else has had good luck with CVs.

That's more or less my thought. I'm not saying "my brand is perfect and all others suck", but some seem to take it that way. I'm just saying "It isn't that bad, and yours isn't particularly amazing in comparison.:

I drive a Ford and I drive a Chrysler. All cars that I've owned in the past

20 years have been Fords or Chryslers. The last bad car I had was an '80 Camaro. Even with that in mind I'd wouldn't have a problem buying Ford, Chrysler or even GM as a next car (I'd buy GM depending on the model, Buicks for example are pretty reliable)

UK's Number 1 seller by a long chalk. Has been at or near this position for years. (Not same in Germany, however, where Numero Uno is the VW Golf.)

Clicking on any of the titles gives a spreadsheet and commentary (and a press release), if you are interested in more details.

DAS

No transmission truly needs umpteen different TEMPERATURE sensors to work right. Its not the 5 speeds that make it a Rube Goldberg dream, its the design.

I've got an all-Chrysler fleet at the moment, but I'm not allergic to Ford. OTOH, I'd be REALLY careful buying a GM. No Chevy-designed engines (no 3100 or 3400 for sure, maybe a Gen-III v8 is now corporate enough to have cured the ills of its SBC roots) but I'd gladly own a Buick 3800 or a Northstar engine powered model. And despite the fact that I'm not a big fan of the Ford Modular and think the Windsors were thoroughly superior in most respects, I will admit that (much like the Chrysler

41TE transmission) Ford has slowly and painfully worked out the bugs pretty well over the past 10 years. I still wish they'd design an all-new V8 family ala Chrysler's 5.7/6.3 program, but I don't see it happening for a while.

Because they're not on Usenet and it's not my job.

Because I don't care whether you believe me or not.

Everyone else? Are ya *sure* about that? Or are you only sure about the three you know about? I really have no particularly compelling interest in convincing you that many versions of the Ford Modular V8 are garbage. I'm sure your reality is very real to you, and that's fine. I will say this about the "everyone else" you believe has had "good luck" with Clown Victorias:

Luck has nothing to do with it. Engineering quality is what determines reliability.

Translation: You don't have anything to cite.

Then you'll pardon my disbelief.

Have a nice day.

Cheers,

Actual translation: You're not worth it!

No, I mean everyone else. Check any reliability records on the CV. It scores quite high.

Kind of like how you have no compelling interest in convincing me that the

3.0L Vulcan engine is garbage? You still think that, don't you?

Just because there isn't a handy citation somewhere in the magical world of cyberspace doesn't mean that a statement is untrue. I have also talked to some fleet maintainers who found that in the early years of the Modular they need to keep a strangely large supply of important parts on hand compared to the previous Ford engines and compared to GM and Chrysler engines.

Right. I truly don't care what you think.

Daniel, why do you have to be such a prick? You make a statement and people ask you what you base that statement on. Your reply is basically, kiss my ass, I don't care what you think. So I'm inclined to discount your opinion entirely.

If I want to know about lightbulbs, I'll gladly defer to your experience, but I'm certainly not going to take anything you say about the Ford Modular V8 or 3.0L V6 without some shred of independently verifiable evidence. Your commentary simply doesn't jibe with my day to day experience with either of those engines.

Granted, this isn't nearly as interesting as your diatribe on gay (or perhaps not so gay) hollywood legends, but I see a pattern here of you making assertions without any shred of credible evidence. If you don't have any evidence, just say so. No need to be a jerk about it.

Cheers,

Well, that doesn't jibe with my first hand experience. Perhaps you can convince your "fleet maintainer" to post some thoughts about their experiences....

Cheers,

Well, I *could* post the e-mail from the Ford platform engineer I've been conversing with for the last year or so -- he's been through three engines in his Marauder, and is replacing it with an '05 Pontiac GTO before there's a chance for a fourth -- but that would be slimy of me, since I don't have his permission and don't feel like asking for it. I could also tell you the name of the motor pool manager at UM, but here again, I don't have his permission, don't feel like asking for it, and he doesn't need you ringing his phone asking if I'm telling the truth.

Hey, here we go: I could send you to Ford TSBs for the last 6 years. You don't need my permission to go look at 'em and read up on intake manifold and cylinder head and oil consumption problems with modular V8s. All you need is a little self-motivation.

Naw, not really...I truly don't care what you believe, so why would I pardon it or reject it?

Ritz, if you don't like my posts, nobody forces you to read them.

Try reading harder next time. My response was to provide the basis for my statement. Others then said they don't believe me, and I said "Fine".

Fine.

DS

So of course you conclude everyone's lying whose experience differs from your own experience with a couple cars.

What is wrong with you?

I didn't accuse you of lying. I simply asked you for some verifiable source of information. Instead of supplying one or saying you couldn't, you behaved rudely. Gee, that's a recipe for trust.

I don't know what your problem is. I hope you figure out why you're such an angry man and deal with it.

Cheers,

I dislike your attitude. Since the feeling is apparently mutual, I suggest you quit reading my posts, since they seem to bother you so.