In the old days, most gas stations were garages, not convenience stores.
When was the vote? I missed it.
If the good people of New Jersey want to mandate that someone else pumps their gas and they choose to pay 6 cents a gallon do to it, that is their prerogative. It's called democracy.
People who live in New Jersey and don't like it may get a diesel car (fuel stations are not required to have someone pump the diesel) or may go to a neighboring state and fill up there. Or they may pump their own gas.
Gee, I have never noticed an influx of NYC people in New Jersey gas stations who cross a bridge or tunnel at $4 a pop (with EZ Pass discount, soon to be $6, and $8 without the discount). Of course, they often gas up before returning to the city if they are in NJ (there are not that man gas stations in NYC because of the high cost of land and doing business in the city) because of the higher prices of gas in NYC.
I do wish you would get your act in order and learn not to top post, but rather in-line post, which makes it easier to follow the thread.
Gee, I think the number is about 500,000. About 1000 of those on the PATH train I often take (I mean on that particular train, about 50,000 or so people do take the PATH to NYC each day) or 50 of those on the bus I take (another 100,000 or so come through the tunnel on buses each day
- there is a line of buses that starts on the NJ Turnpike and goes all the way to the Port Authority Bus Terminal with buses nearly bumper to bumper; they even have their own special bus lane that is on the left side of the road, literally).
But those are New Jersey residents who work in New York, not people who cross the bridges or tunnels just to get gas, which is what I inferred Tom's comment about the "influx of all the new york city slickers" to mean.
How do you arrive at 6¢ ? In Mass, towns make their own laws regarding self service. Gas at the self service costs the same as the full service in the towns across the street. If they can both sell at the same price, NJ stations should be able to do the same.
Going to a neighboring state the gas will cost more even if you pump it yourself. NJ has some of the cheapest gas in the east.
When I pass through NJ, I make it a point to stop for gas for two reasons. It is cheaper than any other place on my trip, and I don't have to pump it myself. Seems to be win-win for me. Do as you please (laws permitting) FWIW, here in CT, self serve regular is 3.19 in most places where I live,
2.96 in MA where I work and I can have it pumped at that price. What is the price in NJ?
That was in an article cited by me earlier in this thread.
And some of the lowest taxes.
AFIK, there is not law prohibiting people from pumping their own gas in NJ. I don't mind pumping it myself, and it is faster than waiting for the attendant to get around to my car (he's not lazy, just that usually there are a few cars getting filled up, and he has others to attend to, as well).
It started, a long time ago by a bunch of LAZY, misinformed, well meaning Idiots, and New Jersey and Oregon still suffer from that foolishness today...
All stations in New Jersey and Oregon, however, are mini service; attendants are required to pump gas because customers are barred by statutes in both states from pumping their own gas. Both states prohibited self service in the 1940s due to fears that foolish customers would handle gasoline improperly. Oregon's Department of Environmental Quality has also ordered a ban on self-service gasoline due to inexperienced pumpers being a significant source of groundwater and air pollution. One argument that is often brought up in this debate is that this law provides jobs to the otherwise unemployable.
The constitutionality of the self-service bans has been disputed. The Oregon statute was brought into court in 1989 by ARCO, and the New Jersey statute was challenged in court in 1950 by a small independent service station, Rein Motors. Both failed.
And you had a choice, pump your own, or pay more and have some flunky pump it for you...
In 1982, Oregon voters rejected a ballot measure sponsored by the service station owners, which would have legalized self-service gas.
Thursday, May 8 2003 A measure to allow self-service gasoline pumps in Oregon appears all but dead for another legislative session.
The bill went back to a House committee this week at the request of its sponsor, Rep. Randy Miller (R-West Linn), the Associated Press reported.
Miller, who acknowledged there were only about half of the 31 House votes needed to pass the bill, has tried for more than a decade to repeal the ban on self-service gasoline sales.
Only Oregon and New Jersey prohibit self-service stations. Oregon voters rejected a self-serve measure in 1982.
Miller said while self-service foes are vocal, a survey he conducted indicated about six of 10 people support the bill after being told it would require attendants to pump gas for disabled people and motorists 55 and older.
Govenor Ted Kulongoski had said HE WAS CONCERNED ABOUT JOB LOSSES the measure might cause, and the Oregon AFL-CIO (A UNION) lobbied against the bill. The labor federation estimated that 7,600 service station attendant jobs, at average pay of $8.21 an hour, would be eliminated under self-service.
The organization said the estimate is based on the national ratio of gas station attendants to total employment and on job numbers from the state Employment Department.
I have seen no evidence that the people who enacted the self-service laws were any of the above.
In NJ, the law is unconstitutional.
These weren't the only states to do this. PA also had laws against selfservice until the late 1970s or early 1980s.
I have seen nothing that suggests that pump attendants are otherwise unemployable. Many are of Middle-Eastern or Indian descent around where I live. I am sure many also crossed the border from the south into Texas, New Mexico or California.
I don't recall owing any of these people (whether here legally or not, or whether their first breath was in America or not) a job. Just like no one owes me a job.
Some gas stations in PA are still full-service. And, under law, gas stations have to pump gas for people who are disabled. Unfortunately, not all gas station obey the law.
That was before I could legally vote. There was not one in recent times in New Jersey.
None of these talk about a vote by the people that happened in New Jersey, as in a referendum.
OR does still make self serve illegal. Making self-serve legal has come up on the ballot several times before. Each time, cooler heads have done statistical analysis of gas stations in both Washington and California and shown that the price of gas in both those states after adjustment for non-self-serve-related costs is no different than in Oregon. As a result those ballot measures have all failed, to the annoyance of gas station owners who were hoping to make a quick buck.
The fact of the matter is that gas pumping doesen't take much training. So it is rare to pull into a gas station in Oregon and come across a completely ignorant attendant. Just about all of them do a good job filling your tank. Better, in fact, than 3/4 of the other drivers I see in the gas station would likely to do.
I'm strongly in favor of keeping the self-serve ban in Oregon. We have to have some kind of job available for the ex-cons to work at once they get out of prison, so they can build up some trust and a resume. I would rather pay at the gas pump for private industry to supply those kinds of jobs at the gas stations in Oregon than to pay extra taxes to the government to provide a bunch of make-work for those types of people to do.
i am not talking about new yookers driving to jersey to fill up and then go home. i am talking about the azzholes that "move to the country" and then drive 2hours one way to go work in the city..
Yeah right. So you don't think that prices would quickly adjust to make up for the legislated/privately paid welfare that would no longer be being paid to the pumpers?
Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
Please try and follow along, as I have already posted in this thread, I don't go to the fuel station during "peak hours", there is never a line when I shop, and almost always plenty of open pump...
Worse yet, most gas stations are one way, which means if your tank faces the left side, you get to wait and wait. I got around the problem and started using cardlock stations, never a crowd, never a line, even for left-hand pumps.
Actually, power starters without any handcrank for backup, power windows without any manual override crank, automatic transmissions and ECMs are the bane of my existence. We would have all been better off if they left the handcrank in just in case (no more jumpstarts!), given us some way to open a window if the power windows crap out for some reason, and never subverted the "check engine" light to really mean "Master Fault".
I'm not sure easier access to refuel is what we need so much as fewer reasons to refuel in the first place.
That's odd, my Tradesman actually has the exhaust almost directly below the filler neck. Worse yet, backpressure when filling the tank is pretty damn low making it exceptionally difficult to tell when it's actually full.
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