Re: GM, Ford reputations take a hit

OH NO!! Does AL Gore know about that!! One of our greatest natural resources: VIN's - wasted :)

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')

Reply to
Bill Putney
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You mention the oil bath air filters, but you forgot about those canister-type oil filters (before the spin-ons)!

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')

Reply to
Bill Putney

No one said the VINs are wasted. I drank a bottle of soda this morning. Now it's gone. But it wasn't wasted.

Jeff

Reply to
Jeff

The canisters are coming back! Hyundai uses them on the V6. You change it from up top.

Reply to
Edwin Pawlowski

Keep searching, you will find it but not in the US code

mike

Reply to
Mike Hunter

What is your point? GM , Ford and Chrysler buy a lot more parts made in the US than does Toyota or any other import brand for that matter. Toyota buys most of the part from other Japanese companies. Notice from whom Toyota buys all of their steel and tires and most of their parts?

Honda and Nissan do build the Accord as well as Altima and Titan in the US, that is why they have a '1' as the first number of the VIN. Toyota on the other hand have a 4 or 5 and only assembled in the US. READ Toyota ads about what they say are used to assemble their vehicles in the US, 'Imported parts'

. mike

Reply to
Mike Hunter

Back after WWII the minimum wage was about 35c an hour, gas was 19c. The average annual income was around $3,000 and a new Ford sold for $1,700 and it was the same car that sold for $700 1941 LOL

mike

Reply to
Mike Hunter

Actually, the price of cars had gone down. My first car was about four months pay. I just bought a new car for about four months pay, but got one hell of a lot more car for it. Gas has gone down when I figure how many gallons of gas I could buy for an hour's wage. Life is good.

Reply to
Edwin Pawlowski

It was a joke (notice smiley face). Don't analyze it.

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')

Reply to
Bill Putney

No thanks. You made this claim that the VINs that begin with '1' have

70-100% US content. Yet some cars that have less than 70% domestic (US + Canadian content), like the Ford Mustang have a '1' as the first digit.

I am not going to find it because I am done looking. Everthing thing I have found is consistant with the US being assigned a VIN of 1, then a 4 and a 5 added later and the first digit of the VIN has nothing to do with content, including news reports quote SAE engineers saying that the 4 and 5 were added later, the US Code that described VINs, discrepencies between nearly identical vehicles built at the same plant that have VINs that start with different first digits, and a *total* lack of credible evidence that your conjecture is true.

Now, if you want to provide documentation that demonstrates otherwise, please do so. You claim that a retired engineer friend said otherwise or told you where to find it doesn't count.

You have said I am free to believe what I want. What I believe, based on your behavior that I have observed here is that you are a smart man, but you are too old and two stubborn to look at the facts, all of which contradict your baseless conjecture that the VINs reflect content.

You may say that I am free to beleive what I want. I am. And my beliefs are based on evidence.

Have a lovely day.

Jeff

Reply to
Jeff

Toyota buys $28,000,000 worth of parts and sercives in the US. News reports say that Toyota buys around 65% of its are sourced from the US?

Provide evidence, please.

Show us the ads that say, "Imported parts."

The reason why the VIN has nothing to do with US content. '1' is common on US brand cars because '1' wes first assigned to the US. Later, 4 and 5 was assigned to the US. It was after 4 and 5 were assigned to the US that many import brands started building cars in the US. Likewise, Mercury and Lincoln started building SUVs and trucks. So they get a 4 or 5 for a vehicle that is nearly identical to the vehicle sold on the Ford brand on the same assembly line. If the intent was to have content indicated as part of the VIN, the US would probably have been assigned 1, 2 and 3, to make it simpler.

Likewise, cars, like the Ford Mustang, that have lots of parts from Mexico (25% + 8% outside North America) still carry a '1' as it first digit in the VIN. (Mike claims vehicles with more than 70% US content get a '1' while those with between 40 and 70% get a '4').

Here is an article from USA Today that specifically says that 4 and 5 were added after the US started running out of VINs.

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If Mike or anyone else is able to offer citations that show I am wrong, please do so.

Jeff

Reply to
Jeff

Get real, You apparently do not understand what you read. How can we possibly 'run out' of VINs? Individual VINs change annual and they vary by manufacture, plant, body, SRS type, engine, model year, check digit, etc as well as the sequential build number up to 999,999 Few of which stays constant yearly LOL

mike

Reply to
Mike Hunter

That's why many vehicle owners don't care how much gas they use.

Reply to
Some O

My point is: Mike the world is much more integrated than your little outdated view of it tells you and this flow of parts around the world has been going on for a long time.

-When the big 2.5 buy parts from Delphi it is very likely they are imported. Delphi import most of their parts. As of the Chapter 11 filing last April Delphi employed 32,000 UAW and other union workers in the USA plus 115,000-worker foreign factories, many of which operate in low-wage countries such as Mexico and China.

-Toyota builds engines in the USA, but Chrysler imports the 2.7L V6 from Mexico.

-In 1980 I removed a damaged wheel rim from my Chrysler Horizon and noticed it was made in Mexico. That was the Chrysler car using a VW engine made in Germany.

-Last summer I replaced the blower resistor in my wife's Sebring. The old resistor was made in Mexico, the replacement in Slovenia.

-Car carrying ships returning to Asia return with NA parts. Here we have a major Al wheel factory. They ship wheels to Japan and Korea on the returning car carrying ships.

You need to read more and become up to date:

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Vehicles produced by companies other than the North American Big 3 currently account for about 44% of North American sales. However, many of the major foreign automobile companies now provide the bulk of their North American sales from their production facilities on this continent. As a result, imports account for only 20% of sales of light vehicles in the United States and just under 25% in Canada.

U.S. imports of motor vehicle parts are quite diversified with about 50% coming from overseas markets. At the end of the 1990s, Mexico surpassed Canada as a supplier of parts to the U.S. market. U.S. parts imports from China have just recently become important, and they are growing rapidly. U.S. imports of car parts from Japan have been flat, while the purchases of U.S.-made parts by the Japanese ³transplants² has soared, reflecting the fact that Japanese suppliers followed the Japanese assemblers in setting up operations in North America. Canada imports parts almost exclusively from the United States, although one should recognize that some of these parts may be originating overseas, but are landing first in the U.S. before being shipped to Canada.

Reply to
Just Facts

I meant, WMIs, which are the first three characters in a VIN.

Reply to
Jeff

U.S. parts imports from China have just recently become important, and they are growing rapidly.

And this is what scares the heck out of me. How are the auto makers going to keep the counterfeit parts made in unauthorized factories out of their cars. If I had the opportunity to bet on this I would wager every last bit of my assets that this is going to become a MAJOR problem for Chinese sourced parts

U.S. imports of car parts from Japan have been flat, while the

Double Tap

Reply to
Double Tap

Don't be fooled by that, Japanese companies assembling in the US and Canada buy the majority of the part from other Japanese companies operating in the US. The parts they buy from them are preassembled over seas and completed in the US or Canada so the parts can be labeled made in the US and Canada. I E Nippon steel which comes into the US by the boat load, Bridgestone tires, Desno Globe parts etc. they do it to take advantage of Japanese tax laws that permit them to take profit out of the US federal tax free.

One reason there are far few Japanese brands made or sold in Europe is the tax laws their are not so lenient. The must pay the Value added tax on all the profit they earn in Europe and do not get the capital return tax back in Japan for exporting or making cars and trucks outside of Japan, like they do on earning brought back to Japan from the US.

mike

Reply to
Mike Hunter

Mike, The above was not my post you sniped my part out. Double Tap

Reply to
Double Tap

Evidence, please.

And why would they do this? Japanese labor rates are just as expensive as they are in the US.

And pay Japanese tax on it.

That was a good guess. How about evidence to back your claims?

Yeah, and European companies in Europe don't pay the tax. ;-)

More speculation.

In Europe, Toyota sold about 850,000 cars and trucks. It is about as big a market as the US (about 15,000,000 cars and trucks a year). They are 8th in sales, behind VW. Peugeot, Ford, GM, Renault, Fiat and DC. They sell more than BWM. IMHO, there is far more competition for car makers in Europe, than the US. Europeans buy mostly small cars. And all the above mentioned car makers make small cars (unlike in the US, where no US company makes small cars without help from a Japanese company).

Jeff

Reply to
Jeff

= Firestone in the USA. Doesn't Firestone manufacture in the USA anymore?

Personally I don't care. I've had Firestone tires twice on new cars and they were the tires I've ever had. So bad I had to trash them very early in their expected life.

Reply to
Some O

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