Recent SUV 5 mph crash tests (Pacifica ranked poorly)

NOT SO TOUGH AFTER ALL? Eight of 9 new mid-size SUVs sustain big damage in 5 MPH bumper tests Vehicle tested / Average damage per test / Bumper rating 2003 Honda Pilot $404 ACCEPTABLE 2004 Mitsubishi Endeavor $789 MARGINAL 2003 Nissan Murano $890 MARGINAL 2004 Lexus RX 330 $988 MARGINAL 2003 Toyota 4Runner $1,246 POOR 2004 Chrysler Pacifica $1,315 POOR 2003 Infiniti FX35 $1,436 POOR 2004 Cadillac SRX $1,644 POOR 2003 Kia Sorento $1,646 POOR * All repair costs reflect September 2003 parts and labor prices. Source: the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety

The U.S. insurance institute's chief operating officer, Adrian Lund, said the makers of the SUVs tried to create a rough-and-tough image, but the vehicles' bumpers proved to be flimsy in four tests of how well the bumpers absorbed low-speed impacts. "Vehicles shouldn't sustain major damage in a minor collision at a fast walking speed," Lund said.

Rear bumpers fail to protect tailgates: Three of the poor performers had the largest damage costs in the rear-into-pole test. The rear bumpers on the Chrysler Pacifica, Cadillac SRX, and Kia Sorento weren't robust enough to keep damage away from the vehicles' body parts and sheet metal. Damage totals for these vehicles were five to six times more than the Pilot in the same test.

"Repair costs in the pole test were about $2,200 for the Sorento and more than $2,800 each for the Pacifica and the SRX because the bumpers didn't protect the expensive-to-repair tailgates," Lund says. "In each case, the tailgate was crushed and had to be replaced. Those are big repair bills for a minor bump."

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Reply to
MoPar Man
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I find this quite interesting, but not surprisng and actually quite typical for you.

Immediately upon release of information (November 28) you posted how the Pacifica ranked poorly in this test................but you have yet to post any comments about the information released two days later (November 30) which states "NEW 40 MPH CRASH TEST RESULTS: 8 OF 9 MIDSIZE SUVs EARN TOP RATING OF GOOD" - plus the fact that the Pacifica was one of five to receive a "Best Pick" rating.

Reply to
RPhillips47

Yep, crash at 5 mph and pay hundreds or thousands of dollars in damage; crash offset to the front at 40 mph and you'll likely survive. The second is what should be expected from any modern vehicle; the former is well below what should be expected from any modern vehicle.

Reply to
Lloyd Parker

You can thank congress for it (both parties). They have ignored the issue for decades. All it would probably take is a little styrofoam to reduce the repair cost by a factor of 5. That is what they use in car bumpers and is missing from the SUV's because manufacturers apparently won't add it without an act of Congress.

(November 30)

damage; crash

Reply to
Art Begun

Are you old enough to remember when the government mandated 5 mph bumpers? I was glad to see them go and don't want them back. People who think mandating 5 mph bumpers is a good idea don't understand physics. People that value such bumpers should study the CR and IIHS bumper tests and purchase their vehicles accordingly. I don't value such bumpers and ignore these tests. In over thirty-five years of driving cars, trucks, and SUVs I have had never had to replace a single bumper. I have no idea why I would want to waste my money to burden my vehicles with the sort of bumpers IIHS and CR advocate. The whole concept of massive bumpers was discredited 20 years ago. CRs and IIHS continual advocacy for massive bumpers borders on insanity.

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Ed

Reply to
C. E. White

Carter put in a 5-mph bumper requirement; Reagan reduced it to 2.5 mph. Before that, Saab did have a bumper with foam in it that protected quite well, but they don't anymore.

Reply to
Lloyd Parker

Did you see, for example, the SAAB bumpers of the late 70s? Simple plastic foam inside; did a good job.

Reply to
Lloyd Parker

The 5 mph mandate was for no damage and required a massive bumper. No one is advocating that now. But a little bit of styrofoam could probably reduce a $1500k accident to less than $500.

styrofoam

physics.

trucks,

bumpers

Reply to
Art Begun

And better driving instruction and licensing requirements could eliminate the accident and reduce the cost to $0, and would likely cost less than reverting back to the old 5 MPH bumpers and would have many other benefits.

Matt

Reply to
Matthew S. Whiting

Didn't know about it. Do now. Notice that Jeeps ranked pretty poorly

- but better than the shit that GM puts out.

Yes, and so did the Honda Pilot and the Murano, both of which had better bumper performance than the Pacifica. BMW X-5 and Acura MDX also had great crash test results and acceptible bumper performance.

Is it asking too much to be able to take a trivial front or rear impact without dammaging either the lift-gate, fenders and lights? Especially in a class of vehicles that are portrayed as rugged and tough?

Or are automakers incapable of designing foam-core, spring-loaded bumpers that don't trigger air-bag deployment during a 5 mph impact?

Reply to
MoPar Man

The LH cars have styrofoam inserts behind their front fascias. Is that the sort of thing you're referring to?

Bill Putney (to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with "x")

Reply to
Bill Putney

Haven't seen the LH taken apart but that is what most manufacturers do now because the current requirement sacrifices the bumper (a reasonable policy, in my opinion) to protect expensive components in the car so stryofoam is the material of choice. SUV's don't even try.

Reply to
Art Begun

poorly

The bumpers you describe are probably not economically viable, but they could certainly be a lot better than they are currently. All it takes is some styrofoam.

Reply to
Art Begun

Right, because the Reagan adminstration correctly realized that a 2.5 mph bumper could absorb impact of higher speed crashes, where doing so can protect human life. Notice that cars have become safer to humans since, at the expense of bumper prices. Of course nobody forced Saab to NOT have a 5 mph bumper, but the forces of physics make it difficult to have a bumper that can both withstand a low speed impact with no damage and absorb energy in a high speed crash to protect the humans inside. That being said, the bumpers probably could be improved to lessen the damage, if not eliminate it from such low speed impacts.

Reply to
Greg

Which laws of physics? I've studied physics for a long time and haven't come across this law yet.

Matt

Reply to
Matthew S. Whiting

Read again more carefully. I didn't specify any laws of physics. But only one piece of matter can occupy a space at the same time. The energy of an object attempting to occupy another's space is either going to be absorbed or passed on. I would rather the bumper sacrifice itself to absorb the unwanted energy, rather than a body absorbing it instead.

Reply to
Greg

Wow. You could not be more misinformed on the matter if you tried. The

5mph and 2.5mph bumper standards have *nothing* to do with occupant protection in a crash. There is no standard for bumpers in this regard, for it is not their purpose. The bumper standards were promulgated primarily as a consumer cost reduction measure, and secondarily to protect safety-related components (e.g. hood latches, lights) in low-speed collisions. That is why they are not Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards, but rather are located elsewhere in the CFR.

Read the regulatory analysis of the bumper requirement. It was posted a few days ago in this thread and will get you up to speed on the matter.

DS

Reply to
Daniel J. Stern

Which explains why the bumpers are so costly to fix/replace for such minor accidents at below walking speed.

All may be found in Title 49, Volume 5, Chapter V.

"The purpose of this standard is to reduce physical damage to the front and rear ends of a passenger motor vehicle from low speed collisions. 49 CFR 581.2

The bumper protects the car (at low speed) , the car protects the occupants.

Reply to
Greg

Given the alternative (bumpers that transmit impact force directly to the body, body-frame unit or frame of the vehicle)...yes!

Yes, as may all automotive-related standards, but the fact remains: bumper standards are not FMVSSs.

Yes. Exactly. This is correct, but it contradicts your earlier nonsense about 2.5mph bumpers offering superior occupant protection.

DS

Reply to
Daniel J. Stern

Point taken, thanks for the clarification.

Reply to
Greg

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