I tried Recharging the A/C on my girlfriends 1999 Dodge Caravan Sport today I got the kit " charger hose and 3 cans of 134a. my end result It blows nothing but hot air. It was cooler before I tried to recharge it. It would only take half a can and it's the small can so decided to bleed out what was left inthe line by pressing in the valve it still would only take half and it is the right connection it can only fit one way am I doing something wrong? please help before my girlfriend kills m
recharge it. It would only take half a can and it's the
valve it still would only take half and it is the right connection
girlfriend kills me
#1 Venting the refrigerant from your system is a federal crime (a violation of the clear air act) . Even if you don't care about the environment it probably isn't the best idea to admit to a federal crime on a world wide public newsgroup.
While you are trying to charge is the compressor turning? The refrigerant carries the oil through the system. If the refrigerant gets low the oil isn't distributed and the compressor dies. To prevent this from happening the manufacturer puts a low pressure drop out switch on the system that turns off the compressor under low pressure situations.
Check to make sure the compressor is energized ( the front disk spinning as well as the pulley). If it isn't energized locate the low pressure switch and jump it out so the compressor will spin then charge the system. If it still won't take more than half a can you need to check the high and low side pressures and get back to us.
In all honesty you are probably in over your head on this one. After venting the system the dryer really should be replaced and the system vacuumed. Your also dealing with a $400 compressor that you can easily ruin by adding an improper amount of refrigerant or oil.
Good luck. I hope that couch is comfortable ;-) Steve B.
Well with out a proper set of gauges not the one gage check method, filling as per manufacturer instructions, checking pressure chart based on ambient temperature, checking the super heat temp, a proper leak test, properly evacuated the system because all the refrigerant was gone or had air entrainment, more than likely not having been trained in automotive HVAC or licensed as per the EPA you have screwed the pooch and you are lucky you have not blown your compressor up and injured yourself. Any one of the above is your problem besides knowing when to quit and get things done by a professional.
Hey now, don't be so hasty. Don't you know that there's an epidemic of air conditioning related deaths sweeping the nation? Think of all of the grief stricken mothers of those unfortunate tattooed, unshaven, snaggle-toothed shade tree mechanics, and how your callous words stab these poor ladies like flying pieces of R134A shrapnel. Have some respect. At least Mr. Stern is doing his part to help the hopelessly stupid portion of our society to avoid killing themselves at least for one more day. You should just be glad that somebody is willing to do all of that thinking that the rest of us are unwilling or unable to do for ourselves.
Not only that, but you should observe some newsgroup etiquette yourself. You asked an unrelated question in the thread. It should have been put under its own subject line, such as "Why is Stern such a d*****ad?", or perhaps a teaser such as "The shocking truth about Daniel J. Stern!"
I hope you won't be quite so quick to dive in next time without carefully considering what you are saying.
All I did was ask a simple question on installing the R134a, I've installed Superchargers, Turbos fuel injection units rearends entire brake systems mostly on euro cars and yes I don't know much about A/C refridgeration But I've recharged BMW"s Nnd Audi's all 2000 and newer. So don't be immature little asses when someone is asking for legitimate help. This is what this forum is supposed to be about. I did take it to my friends A/C shop and I was doing it correctly I just never vented out the gas like I thought I did
got the kit " charger hose and 3 cans of 134a. my end result It blows nothing but hot air. It was cooler before I tried to recharge it. It would only take half a can and it's the small can so decided to bleed out what was left inthe line by pressing in the valve it still would only take half and it is the right connection it can only fit one way am I doing something wrong? please help before my girlfriend kills me
today I got the kit " charger hose and 3 cans of 134a.
tried to recharge it. It would only take half a can and it's the
the valve it still would only take half and it is the right connection
my girlfriend kills me
Hey Steve, I just used part of a can of Dust Off Freeze Spray this afternoon to find a thermal intermittent on a radio - the stuff is 100% R134a - I guess I must not care about the environment? The instructions on the can say to apply directly to components to locate thermal intermittents, they don't say anything about recovery.
I am confused about caring about the environment - the front of the can says 100% Ozone Safe - and I just bought it brand new about a week ago.
My wife also wants to know if she hates the environment too - her hairspray can uses R134a as the propellant.
My kid also wants to know if he hates the environment too - he painted his bike with spray paint last week - propellant is also r134a in that can.
What the hell? If you vent the system down to atmospheric then how exactly does appreciable amount of outside air and moisture get in and ruin the dryer? Unless you vent it then remove the schrader valve perhaps and drive around for the next week with the system open.
That much is true - if he gets a new compressor - but you forgot the money for all the extra parts and time he needs when he fragments the compressor and it dumps metal filings into the refrigerant lines.
installed Superchargers, Turbos fuel injection units rearends entire brake systems mostly on euro cars and yes I don't know much about A/C refridgeration But I've recharged BMW"s Nnd Audi's all 2000 and newer. So don't be immature little asses when someone is asking for legitimate help. This is what this forum is supposed to be about. I did take it to my friends A/C shop and I was doing it correctly I just never vented out the gas like I thought I did.
Let me ask you this - you say you installed all that stuff, how did you do it? With your fingers? Of course not, you used a wrench, socket set, and probably some other tools. I'm sure you probably spent a lot of money on tools.
So why then is it OK to spend all this money on tools to install this supercharger of yours, then try to use dicky little piss-ant $1.99 tools like that recharge kit on A/C work?
You need decent tools for A/C work just like you need for installing that supercharger. One of the basic fundamental tools for A/C work is a manifold guage set. Along with that is a leak detector, a vacuum pump, and a number of other tools.
No different than the number of other tools needed for the supercharger.
There's an old saying: "If the tools not right the guy's not bright"
You posted in this forum that you used crap tools for this job, of course we all assume your a moron. If I posted that I was having problems installing a supercharger in a Euro car with nothing more than an adjustable crescent wrench, you would think I'm a moron too.
You made up the "hate" part yourself. No where in my post did I say that. My exact quote from above is "Even if you don't care about the environment". 134a is ozone safe BUT it is also a green-house gas. I don't write the laws nor do I lobby for the exceptions. I''m just pointiing out to the OP that it isn't legal and shouldn't be admitted to in a public forum. There is a several thousand dollar "nark reward" if you turn someone in and they get prosecuted. Would it ever happen to him? Doubtful but seems kind of silly to risk it to me.
Your trying to tell me that a guy who installed a super charger and did all that other wonderful stuff you did can't figure out how to hold in a valve stem until the refrigerant leaks out?
In your original post you said you added half a can and it went from warm to hot if I remember correctly. So what turned out to be the actual problem with the system?
You're obviously good at figuring out how to fix things, but apparently the other thing that you have to figure out is what this forum is supposed to be for. It's where people with legitimate questions go to be told that they need to consult a professional. Right guys?
epeart wrote:
Superchargers, Turbos fuel injection units rearends entire brake systems mostly on euro cars and yes I don't know much about A/C refridgeration But I've recharged BMW"s Nnd Audi's all 2000 and newer. So don't be immature little asses when someone is asking for legitimate help. This is what this forum is supposed to be about. I did take it to my friends A/C shop and I was doing it correctly I just never vented out the gas like I thought I did.
Except that on Usenet, since it's so rediculous to forge names, there's no proof that it is who it says it is. (you don't even have any proof that this post is from the same person that replied to you yesterday, nor that both posts actually go to the "real" Ted Mittelstedt (whichever one that is, there's probably dozens of people worldwide with the same name as me) So I don't think there is any risk there.
And my point also is that when the government makes stupid laws they should be flouted and ignored. That is what the Declaration of Independence is all about. With this refrigerant venting issue, the real truth of it is that the majority use of R134a is rapidly becoming all those OTHER uses, that are NON refrigerant uses, where it's just vented to atmosphere.
The EPA mandated automotive refrigerant recovery when R12 was still very prevalent, and the typical A/C service shop really wouldn't know what the f*ck was in the system when it came in for service. So the safest thing was to assume it was R12.
But that was a long time ago and this assumption is rapidly becoming invalid with automotive A/C systems. It is unfair to place this burden of recovery on A/C shops then turn around and say nothing to the manufacturers of boat horns, insulation, dog barking collars, and every damn thing else who sell tons of products who's entire point is to dump R134a into atmosphere.
I'm sure you regularly flout and ignore the 55Mph speed limit on your highways, why is this any different?
The other thing I find absolutely a laugh on this issue is using it as a propellant in asthma inhalers. Here we have this - according to the EPA - -d--n-g-e-r-o-u-s- whoooooooo!!!! environmentally hazardous refrigerant - and sick people with asthma are squirting it into their lungs!!!
Gee, I thought it was where people go who are too cheap to spend the $20 on a used Factory Service Manual. (but more than happy to spend $15 on a Chiltons)
I also thought it was were people go to bitch about the latest auto designs out of DC, and bitch about the latest pooh-pooh ing of those designs from Consumer Reports.
This explains alot about the issue. The thing I don't understand is how freeze spray (a pinpoint refrigerant) isn't considered a refrigerant. Of course, dustoff would then become a refrigerant if inverted and used like freeze spray.
Handling HFC-134a Venting HFC-134a Refrigerant Section 608 of the Clean Air Act prohibits releasing HFC-134a into the atmosphere. The prohibition on venting HFC-134a has been in effect since November 1995.
Section 609 Regulatory History In March, 1996, EPA proposed a rule to require recycling of HFC-134a. The rule proposed standards for recover-only and recover/recycle equipment and rules for training and testing technicians to handle this equipment. EPA requested comments from the public about this proposed rule, and, after reviewing the comments, published a final rule on December 30, 1997. This final rule will become effective on January 29, 1998. For more information about this rule, see the fact sheet "Summary of Final Rule Governing Substitutes for CFC-12 Refrigerant in Motor Vehicle Air Conditioners" available through the Hotline and the web site.
Approved Equipment Technicians who repair or service HFC-134a MVACs must recover the refrigerant and either recycle it on-site, or send it off-site to a reclamation facility so that it may be purified according to ARI Standard
700. Technicians must use EPA-approved equipment to perform the refrigerant recovery and recycling. Recover/ recycle equipment cleans the refrigerant so that oil, air and moisture contaminants reach acceptably low levels. A list of approved recover/recycle and recover-only equipment is available from the Hotline and the web site listed above. Note that certain EPA-approved models can recycle both CFC-12 and HFC-134a refrigerants.
Doesn't matter.... The EPA says....
There is NO R134a in ANY hairspray.
There is NO R134a in ANY spray paint.
BTW: in the links above, the EPA mentions that they are contemplating restricting sales of HFC 134a.
Freeze spray isn't considered a refrigerant because of a political decision made by the EPA that has nothing whatsoever to do with science.
Bob, I cannot believe that you live in the United States and are a grown adult and still don't understand how government works. All government beaucracies constantly work to self-preserve. They do this by constantly working to expand their sphere of influence.
The EPA is a beaucracy and right now they have power over AC refrigerant servicing that they obtained a decade ago when the effects of ozone damage by chlorinated refrigerants were extremely obvious to everyone, and extremely provable. We as a people in our fear gave them this power.
Fast forward 10 years and now that the world has banned chlorinated refrigerant production, it is only a matter of time before all chlorinated refrigerants and other gasses leak away and complete their ozone damage. Then the Earth's natural processes will begin to heal the ozone layer and when that happens the entire reason for the EPA having control over AC refrigerant service will disappear. The EPA's beaucracy knows this and so as normal beaucracies do is moving to self-preserve by finding another scarecrow to use to fight off attempts to take away it's now-unnecessary control over AC servicing. That scarecrow is global warming and the EPA is claiming R134a refrigerant leaks are contributing to it, thus they must retain their power over AC servicing, as well as the beaucracy that exists to administer this.
This is not a scientific finding by the EPA (that R134a refrigerant has anything to do with global warming) It is purely a political finding. Global warming makes a perfect scarecrow since because while scientists just about all agree that it exists, nobody really knows for sure what the real causes are. Until the research is completed that identifies those causes, anybody can say that any possible human activity they don't understand or don't like, from AC servicing to farting cows, is a cause and thus must be regulated.
Industry knows this, and the EPA knows that industry knows this. Therefore as new uses for R134a are proposed and put into practice the EPA cuts deals with industry. They agree to ignore use of R134a in products like freeze spray, dust off spray, dog barking collars, asthma inhalers, insulation, and so on. In exchange for not making trouble for industry, industry agrees to ignore the EPA's control over AC servicing.
Government has a long, long history of making scientific decisions that are based on politics, and not science. They did it in the bad old days when they agreed that Negros were genetically inferior to whites. They did it during the Scopes monkey trial when they agreed that evolution wasn't scientific. They did it during WW2 when they agreed to inter Japanese Americans. They did it during the 70's when they kept adjusting forest statistics to continue to permit logging companies to cut old growth until there isn't any left today. They did it during the
80's when they agreed that damming rivers didn't have anything to do with destroying fish runs. They did it during the 90's when they agreed that air bags are just as safe as seat belts. They are doing it today when they pass laws allowing people to be charged with murder for killing fetuses who have not yet developed into babies who have any measurable brain activity, but who happen to be inside the wombs of mothers who are murdered.
If the EPA really wanted to make a difference they would be focusing on the more likely causes of global warming - such as combustion - and moving to limit combustion by such things as raising fuel efficiency standards for automobiles. Instead, they pussy foot around the elephants in the room while attacking the mice with a vigor.
But it DOES matter.
If Joe repairs an A/C system in a motor vehicle in his garage by releasing a pound of R134a, he is extending the usable life of the vehicle. Suppose he extends that life by 2 years.
That is a ton's less of steel production that the world needs for those 2 years because Joe isn't replacing that car with a new one. A new car that to produce, will emit far, far more damaging pollution than the release of R134a will.
One of the side effects of the throwaway society is that we are moving into a model of shorter vehicle lifetimes. This is great for the car companies who get to produce more and more cars every year. It is terrible for the environment because more and more production means more and more pollution.
The average MPG of cars has barely increased in over 25 years. Thus the argument that newer cars emit less pollution simply so we should all throw away our old cars to save the environment doesen't wash. They are still burning the same amount of gas per mile and the law of diminishing returns means that eventually the pollution output of new vehicles will be the same as old, as long as the MPG stays the same.
So, ultimaately this comes down to do you want to save the environment or follow the law. Sure, if a vehicle owner has the money it is better for the environment if they pay an AC shop to properly reclaim the R134a. But if the vehicle owner doesen't have the money to pay a repair shop - and AC work is incredibly expensive - it is better for the environment if they fix the AC themselves and dump R134a and keep the car for a few more years, than haul it off the a wrecker because it's undrivable. And in many areas of the country, AC isn't just an option, it means the difference between a vehicle that is drivable, and one that isn't.
The EPA would have restricted sales of 134a back when it was developed if they had had the political ability to do so. They didn't then and there is even less chance that they will now. Every time the price rises on a can of R134a, the money that industry gets for keeping R134a available off the shelf rises, and that makes it harder and harder to go up against the industry lobby.
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