Recommendations for rotors/pads?

Well, this seems to be a religious argument in this group. But I will throw out the following statements of fact for you to chew on and think about:

1) Driving habits are at least as important if not more so than pad material in determining whether brakes will fade. If you are the type that likes to descend long 6% grade hills with a 5000 pound trailer, riding the brakes all the way down, your going to have problems. 2) Even though rear brakes do not have the same stopping power the front brakes do, if the rear brakes are worn or have problems, you will burn up your front brakes lightening quick. 3) Moisture in the brake lines will flash to steam under the high pressures of braking and will reduce the pad pressures and can make it feel as though the brakes have faded. Make sure your system is flushed. 4) Pulsing is usually caused by rotor warp. Rotor warp can be caused by heat - such as riding the brakes, or a caliper piston not retracting, it can also be caused by cheap rotors that have less uniformity of the metal in the rotor, and it can be caused by uneven torque on the lugnuts (such as if they use an impact gun to tighten down the wheels rather than a torque wrench) 5) A harder pad will wear slower, but in exchange for increased rotor wear. A softer pad will wear faster and has to be replaced more often, but the rotor will wear less.

Ted

This is certainly true, but I've read a number of articles lately that suggest that this isn't the most common cause of brake pulsing. The theory is that differential friction around the surface of the rotor is the culprit, this being caused by uneven transfer of brake pad material to the rotor. One cause being getting the brakes really hot and then coming to a stop and holding on the brakes pretty hard. I know I've seen such "pad shadows" on my brakes before when I rotate my tires.

One of my vans developed a pulse recently and not too long after putting on brand new (American made) rotors and pads. So, to test this theory, I went out and made several very hard stops as the writer of one of these articles suggested. I then was careful not to apply the brakes again until I'd driven enough to let the brakes cool down. Presto, the pulse was gone. If the rotors had really been warped, this wouldn't have happened.

So, I must admit that I'm beginning to think this theory has substance as compared to my long held belief that rotor warp really was the culprit. I still believe that both can occur, so I'm careful to torque the lug nuts evenly, etc., but I do believe now that there is more than one cause of brake pulse with disk brakes.

Matt

Exactly my experience as well. I recommend going to Tirerack and ordering a pair of Brimbo front rotors and a pair of ceramic pads. Seat the pads as noted above and you will be a happy camper. (The ceramic pads will keep your front wheels from turning black from pad dust and will be kind to your new rotors). It did the trick for me with my 96 Town & Country and the pads were like magic in my 94 T&C.

Richard.

I have come to the same conclusions, Matt. In addition, I am absolutely convinced that the pad material has a lot to do with this problem. I also believe that not all ceramic pads are created equal. The definition of "ceramic pad material" is not controlled or bounded. Saying you're using ceramic pads is like saying you're eating wheat bread.

Tough indepentendly coming to conclusions about pad filming problems, a Frozen Rotor (Diversified Cryogenics) engineer told me that they sometimes get their rotors returned by customers with complaints that they are warped. When they study the returned rotors, they invariably find that the rotors were not at all warped, but that there was a very uneven distribution of pad filming - more ofen than not, the problem is ceramic pads (presumably of certain brands). He said it had gotten to the point that they considered refusing to sell there rotors for certain problem appliations without also selling a certain type of pad with them that they know does not have these issues.

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')

This would seem to agree with my experience, that the pulsing seems to come and go -- which is hard to correlate with warped rotors.

OK, so I take it that Brembo rotors are recommended, but I also see plenty of ceramic pads at tirerack.com -- so which are the good brands? and what about EBC "Greenstuff" pads?

And which pad would that be? :-)

Matt

Dang - I must've been in a hurry when I typed that - *way* too many typos! :)

The pads would be the Performance Friction Z-Rated. I am using those with the Frozen Rotors. I've posted about both the pads and rotors before.

OK - proof-reading before hitting send. OK - hitting send - now...

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')

OK, so I take it that Brembo rotors are recommended, but I also see plenty

Akebono makes a superb ceramic pad. They are the OEM supplier to Toyota, a company that fits ceramic pads at the factory. I have had good performance with their pads combined with Brembo rotors. Too bad no one makes rear ceramic pads for the PT Cruiser.

Richard.