Recommended oil viscosity

But if you read the owners manual, really READ it, you will find that probably 80% of the drivers in American drive according to the "severe" schedule rather than the "normal" schedule. The severe schedule typically still calls for oil and filter changes every 3-4,000 miles rather than 7,500+. I agree that it is disingenuous for the car makers to make the normal driving conditions "severe", but if you read the manual, the clues are all there. I actually drive about 50% according to the severe conditions and 50% according to the normal (highway for me) conditions. I thus split the difference and use 5,000 mile intervals with Mobil 1 (5W-30 in the winter and 10W-30 in the summer) and have had no problems with several cars over 100K.

Matt

Reply to
Matt Whiting
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Yes - Schedule B is for oil (but not filter changes) every 3k. *BUT* I have read first-hand accounts (you're now hearing it second hand) of dealers who absolutely refused to consider that there is such a thing as Schedule A driving and refused to honor warranty claims for failures where the Schedule A maintenance was religiously followed and documented.

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my adddress with the letter 'x')

Reply to
Bill Putney

In central Ontario, Schedule "A" driving does not exist. The temperatures change too much, as well as the humidity. Half the time the air isn't even fit to breath, much less run an engine. Unless you are driving, say from Kitchener to Toronto every day, most people never get more than one good trip in on a change - and the majority never get their cars warmed up fully unless they are stuck in a traffic jam. Those who do the T.O. run in rush hour are not doing highway driving, either. It's 100KM of stop and go.

As far as "religious following" of Schedule "A""- I've seldom seen it. If someone is going to go 10,000Km on an oil change, they'll often go

12,0000. Those who stick to the 3000 mile/5000km schedule will also usually stick to 3 months - and many have less than 4000km on in 3 months. Some will go 4 months to get closer to the 5000Km, particularly in the summer months.
Reply to
nospam.clare.nce

My brother's shop is replacing timing chains on 3.8 GMs, and complete engines on 3.8 Fords quite regularly. Timing chains on SBCs too. Independent shop. Most DEALERS never see a customer's car after it's off warranty, and the chains etc usually last that long. The dealership where I worked was an anomolly - we serviced more cars more than 3 years old than we sold. In any given year our "retention rate" was ALWAYS over 100% on a

3 year basis. Target was 70% IIRC, and most dealers did good to hit 50%. The sales department was pretty good, but the service department was what REALLY sold cars.
Reply to
nospam.clare.nce

You have made my point that if there is no such thing as Schedule A, then why commit fraud by leading people to believe that there is such a thing - get rid of the Schedule A maintenance schedule and be honest with people and tell them (in the vehicle documentation) that the warranty will absolutely be voided if they change the oil at 7000 intervals. To keep Schedule A in the books when there is no intention of ever considering it is out and out fraud on the public.

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my adddress with the letter 'x')

Reply to
Bill Putney

After reading this long and complex thread, I thought I might throw in a few observations as to where things might be going with engines, oil and change intervals. I have a 2004 Crossfire. The manual only has ONE oil listed - Mobil 1 (0W40), no options for other grades or types.

They do not list an oil change interval, as the car has a Flexible Service Schedule - mainly, the computer will tell you when its time to change the oil based on how you've been driving the car. It provides a count down (in miles) to the next due oil change. Do a lot of short run in city driving and it counts faster than the odometer resulting in more frequent changes, do a lot of highway crusing and it counts slower. I also monitors the time the oil has been in the engine as well as the oil level in the engine.

They do have two types of servicing, an A and a B type, but the only difference is the B type includes a tire rotation. If the computer has you on a shorter change interval, it will alternate A and B type service since the tire rotation is more milage based. If your driving is mostly highway and your on a longer change interval it will put the B type services back to back.

Reply to
Richard H. Brockmeier

Anything is possible with a dealer, but I'd think a call from your lawyer referencing the factory documentation would get them off the dime, as might a call to the zone office.

Matt

Reply to
Matt Whiting

I just took a glance at my FSM, and the Schedule A maintenance schedule is descirbed as being for "normal" (their quote marks, not mine) driving conditions. Like I said - a good lawyer could make hay with that (i.e., "Your honor! If normal conditions don't exist, how can you call them "normal"?").

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my adddress with the letter 'x')

Reply to
Bill Putney

I'm using 5W-30 semi-synthetic from the dealer. A Conoco brand which seems very good and costs only the same as dinosaur. But it's different. I burn less oil so it's not the same as dinosaur. Different pollution but we don't know what yet.

Anyway, I just found out that for most of the life of this vehicle, close to 200,000 miles, Voyager, it was serviced not with the recommended 5W-30 but 10W-30. I gather this helped here because it was used mostly for highway driving at turnpike speeds. Maybe one weight heavier for lots of highway driving where that is considered more important than the heavy wear on just starting up the engine? The engine is quite tight so far, not leaking, not smoking, touch wood, which I'm told is unusual or others have said not unusual for this 3.0 L V-6 Mitsubishi.

Reply to
treeline12345

If you check the manual you will find that typically both 5W-30 and

10W-30 are recommended for the temperature range that most of us drive in. I believe that the 10W-30 runs a little higher on the temp scale and 5W-30 runs a little lower, but the overlap is pretty substantial. If you drive within the range for 5W-30 then that is usually stated as being the choice of preference, but that doesn't mean that you can't also use 10W-30 if within its operating range.

I typically use 5W-30 in the winter and 10W-30 in the summer, but I don't worry if I my 5,000 mile change interval runs into August as I believe the range for 5W-30 goes up to 100F and we rarely see that in PA.

Matt

Reply to
Matt Whiting

Thanks, that helps. I missed the 100 F limit for 5W-30. Guess the end of the arrow is really the end, duh me. I'm also in PA and although it rarely gets to 100, we did have high 90's in the past for a few days in summer. Now with global warming, it seems PA is gettting cooler in the summer while the other states are heating up. Warmer winters and cooler summers.

Since I'm using a semi-synthetic, I suspect it's going to be a little more robust near 100 F, Conoco-Phillips/Kendall. So far it's not the same as dinosaur 5W-30. Mind you, I'm not saying it's the same as 100% synthetic, not that I would know but it definitely is smoother and does not seem to burn up oil as easily. I am not using as much oil as with

10W-30 or 5W-30 dinosaur. The 10W-30 is good down to 0 F and the 5W-30 is good up to 100 Fahrenheit or 38 C. Easy for me to remember that now. In the past I had used 10W-30 in winter and 10W-40 or such in summer in older cars.

You're also right about the choices. The manuals clearly state if a choice, use 5W-30, for the starting "to reduce low temperature cranking effort" (but not for the 2.5 Liter engine above 0 C. or 32 F.)

Now when I get it together, I should get another analysis from Blackwell Labs just out of curiosity. Funny how the mechanics get a bit bent of shape with all the chemistry that comes back. Guess they feel threatened since they probably never had chemistry. Or as one said, he did not need lab reports. He has his ears! But I don't have his ears, as I explained to him so I need the chemistry.

But it's fun to read those lab reports and they are around $20. The last one said my oil fine given my engine and its mileage but that it was more like a 5W-30. I suspect the mechanics knew my car preferred

5W-30 in winter and gave me that although I had asked for 10W-30 near the winter. I do wish they had explained this to me though.
Reply to
treeline12345

That is pretty funny. By the time his ears hear a problem, it is way too late. Oil analysis can detect problems in the making so that corrective action can be taken before something fails enough to cause noise. This isn't so critical in cars as often the cost of an engine tear-down for a preventive fix costs almost as much as just waiting for the failure and then fixing it then (especially when you factor in the extra several thousand miles you may get waiting for complete failure).

However, in other applications such as aircraft, a catastrophic engine failure can be life threatening and is thus more than just an economic inconvenience. This is where oil analysis really shines by catching problems in the making and allowing a preventive repair rather than a corrective repair.

Matt

Reply to
Matt Whiting

As the old joke goes: I know the purpose of the propeller on the front of an airplane is to cool the pilot 'cause if it ever stops you can see him start to sweat.

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my adddress with the letter 'x')

Reply to
Bill Putney

LoL.

DAS

For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling

Reply to
Dori A Schmetterling

Here in Las Vegas I use 20 - 50 W oil all the time. Remember in 1,000 miles of driving or so you 20-50W oil thins out to 17-38 and so on.... IF you use 5-30 W oil it thins out even more with 1,000 miles of driving. Best to get alittle Thicker oil as it will break down when driving. Brian Las Vegas , NV

Reply to
Brian Bower

Or use synthetic oils that are much more temperature stable...

Matt

Reply to
Matt Whiting
20 - 50 w oil is the way to go without major oil breakdown. 5 - 30 w after say 600 miles it will be 0 - 16 W. Now thats real bad. Brian - Las Vegas
Reply to
Brian Bower

They sure can pile it high in Vegas! :-)

Matt

Reply to
Matt Whiting

I assume you know that it is the lighter part of the blend that "burns off" first, and as a result the oil actually goes up a grade and not down (it gets "thicker"). If your oil is "thinner" after use it is from dilution with gasoline and or water. What you want is adequate film thickness on the bearings and quick pumping to oil the rings. A 0W-20 might not give you the film thickness you need in summer Vegas weather and a 20W-50 might not pump fast enough in the winter. A 10W-30 might be a better choice for that motor in hot weather but it is your decision to make not mine.

Richard.

Reply to
Richard

Not totally true, but not totally wrong either. The light ends boil off - thichening the oil. TRhe long chain "VI improvers" shear, lowering the viscosity, and the hydrocarbons bake, raising it again. The question is in the ballance - and how longit takes to happen.

3000 mile oil changes, at 3 months, pretty well get you away from a serious case of any of the three.
Reply to
nospam.clare.nce

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