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Chrysler, owned by Germans and still making crap cars. That has to be some sort of record.

Reply to
Steve Firth
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Steve Firth (%steve%@malloc.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

TBF, if he was referring to the ML, it wouldn't be difficult.

Still, I'm sure the technology exchange between Merc and Chrysler is more than just a one-way thing. They're comparing notes on building crap cars.

Thinking back, my parents rented a Chrysler of some kind in the mid-80s in California. 30 miles or something on the clock when we picked it up. In a week it set fire to the brakes when shown a road anything other than dead straight, and one rear window fell off the regulator and disappeared into the bowels of the door.

Reply to
Adrian

The Lincoln LS doesn't have much in common with an S-type other than the cramped cabin arrangement. Something that seems common in American cars. I can't understand why a nation of lard-arses trys to shoehorn themselves into such small car interiors (with such large exteriors).

The dynamics of the Lincoln are laughable. Now I know why rock and roll is the national music.

Reply to
Steve Firth

Umm hmm, you make my point so eloquently.

Reply to
Steve Firth

Not quite, some are rebadged Isuzus, some are rebadged Holdens, and some Opels are rebadged Lotuses.

Not.

The vauxhalls on sale today arent' much cop, bland, boring GM products designed by teams of accountants.

They built the cars their American bosses told them to build. They didn't sell well in Europe in consequence.

Reply to
Steve Firth

Untrue, the Monaro is the Pontiac Goat, for example.

Reply to
Steve Firth

TBH I don't see that the "cheaper" is relevant. Just because someone suggests that I eat horse shit at 25p/Kg rather than steak at £8/Kg doesn't make horse shit a bargain. And it's very difficult to find a Euro car that matches the Neon, there's not much that slow, that badly built or with such crap handling and mpg. It's almost in a class of its own.

So (with some difficulty) cheaper and better built/specced:

Citroen Xsara 1.6, sadly for the Neon the Xsara is more roomy, has better fitted interior and does 41mpg.

Fiat Doblo, as ugly as a Neon, much roomier, handles better than the Neon, costs £2000 less than a Neon and does 50mpg. It's a converted van, but WTF, it still knocks spots off the Neon.

Fiat Multipla 1.6, even uglier than the Neon, but the interior is stunning, seats six in comfort, same price as the Neon, same speed but way ahead in terms of safety, size and interior style. Top Gear magazine regularly features letters from Septics begging to be allowed to buy a Multipla.

Ford Focus Zetec 2.0i, outclasses the Neon in every department, same price as the Neon.

Hyundai Elantra, identical in every respect to the Neon, ugly, slow, badly built, handles like a jelly on a shovel. But it's £3,000 cheaper than the Neon.

Kia Magentis 2.0 LE, outperforms the Neon, has better handling, interior space, costs £3,000 less than the Neon.

Mazda 3, it's a Mazda so far better built than any Chrysler. Handling is as good as the Focus and it costs less than the Neon for the same performance or only £1.5k more for much better performance.

Mercedes A140 Classic, it's smaller outside than the Neon, but much, much bigger inside especially for the passengers. Slightly slower, handling isn't as good as most European cars but still way better than the Neon.

MG ZR, I hate MG/Rover and all their products but for less money than a Neon they will sell you a car that does 0-60 in 8.6 seconds and that manages 54 mpg. Suck on that Chrysler.

Mini Cooper, slightly cheaper than the Neon 0-60 in 9.1s, 44 mpg, doesn't depreciate significantly. If you want the same performance as the Neon you can get the Mini One and save yourself £3,000.

Mitsubishi Carisma, as dull as the Neon but much better built. Slightly slower 0-60 (11.9s) but does 52mpg. Bigger inside than the Neon. £2,000 cheaper than the Neon.

Nissan Almera, dull in a different way to the Neon, ugly like the Neon but much more practical as a shopping trolley. If you get one as slow as a Neon you'll save yourself close to £3,000.

Nissan Primera, bigger than the Neon but with a much, much better chassis. The most basic Primera costs just a few hundred more than the Neon but the car is way above the Neon's league.

Peugeot 307, same price and same speed as the Neon but 54 mpg.

Proton GEN-2, identical in almost every respect to the Neon, but £3,000 cheaper.

Rover 45, dated, soon to be replaced so it's like the Neon, only better and £1,000 cheaper.

Seat Leon, for a generation it's the car to have, cheaper than the Neon, better looking, and built by a VW subsidiary so it's rock solid. If you pay £2,000 more than the price of the Neon LX, you can get a Leon 1.8

20V T Cupra, which blows the Neon away (0-60 in 7.7s).

Skoda Octavia 1.8T vRS, costs the same as the Neon and it's a stretched version of a VW Golf floorpan with a 1.8 Turbo engine. 0-60 in 7.9s, top speed 150 mph. The only time an Octavia driver will see a Neon driver is as a spot in the rear window getting rapidly smaller and smaller.

Smart Forfour, £2,000 cheaper than the Neon, smaller outside but bigger inside with "lounge chair" layout giving acres of room to passengers. Not as sassy as the original Smart Fortwo but it blows the Neon away in terms of dynamics, looks and comfort.

Suzuki Liana, pretty similar to the Neon, but £3,000 to £4,000 cheaper. Just about every star on the face of the planet has driven one, including Lionel Ritchie, Jodie Kidd and JK of Jamiroquai :-)

Toyota Corolla 1.6 VVTi, stonking engine, and it's a Toyota, puts the Neon to shame, costs £100 less.

Yes of course it would be a good idea to forget that the USonians are trying to sell dangerous heaps of junk over here. Did y'all stick yer fingers in yuh ears when that lefty pinko liberal Nader spoke?

Reply to
Steve Firth

%steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:

Whereas in the past...?

Reply to
Adrian

Were commented on in the bit you snipped.

Reply to
Steve Firth

Other way around.

Reply to
Joe Pfeiffer

Yes, well you would say that.

AFAIK, it's based on a European Omega platform.

Reply to
SteveH

Hmm, no you're wrong.

The Monaro is based on the Opel Omega and the Pontiac GTO is a badge engineered Holden. Because you septics can't design a decent suspension to save your lives.

Reply to
Steve Firth

Check your facts, old bean. We get none of the above in North America. Saabs that use the same platform don't count.

Reply to
Daniel J. Stern

ooOOOOOooooh! Five hundred whole cars! Pfft.

Reply to
Daniel J. Stern

Erm, you really are a bit dense, aren't you:

The Saturn Ion, Chevrolet Cobolt and Vx/Opel Astra are all on the same platform.

There was also a Chevrolet Cavalier (amongst other GM brands) that shared it's platform with the European Cavalier / Ascona (MkII Cavalier)

The Chevrolet Malibu, Pontiac G6 and Vx/Opel Vectra all share the same platform.

The Vx/Opel Corsa is going to become a replacement for the Chevrolet Aveo.

Finally, there's definitely versions of the Omega over there - the Pontiac GTO being one.

Reply to
SteveH

Well, take any fifty chryslers on a european track (or length of road that isn't pretty much a straight line or Indy oval) and put them up against any two caterhams, and see if you can guess which cars come first and second.

Reply to
Questions

Now perhaps you'd care to think about the engine and then revise your "No Yank in 'em" drivel?

Reply to
Steve Firth

Nooo There's the Town Car, the Neon, the Wrangler, the Corvette, the ... oh... no .... sorry... you're right.

Reply to
Tim S Kemp

Set the gearing right on the caterhams and beat them on ovals too...

Reply to
Tim S Kemp

snipped-for-privacy@italiancar.co.uk (SteveH) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:

Cadillac Catera...?

Reply to
Adrian

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