Sebring---- SUDDEN ACCELERATION

Feb. 27 (Bloomberg) -- Ford Motor Co., the world's second- largest automaker, settled a sudden-acceleration lawsuit today brought by a Cleveland minister who was left in a coma after his 1987 Crown Victoria crashed into a neighbor's house.

Attorneys for Le>

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maxpower
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ONCE AGAIN DANIEL STERN RAMBLES ON, YOU ARE SO WRONG PAL ((READ ON )

a.. Oct 4, 1996 : Chrysler disclosed in a letter to the Office of Defects Investigation that it knew of 98 incidents of unintended acceleration between 1993 and 1996 involving Cherokees and another 241 involving Grand Cherokees ref: See Section 9-Links & References CHRYSLER a.. A group of independent engineering experts claims to have uncovered a defect specific in the 1993-96 5.2 litre V8 Grand Cherokee. If cruise control is left in the ON position a short to ground in the power control module connector can cause the vehicle's engine to race. The short is said to be caused by water, moisture etc. getting into the connector and causing corrosion. ref: See Section 9-Links & References CHRYSLER : Strategic Safety. Special investigation Chrysler Cherokee 1998

Reply to
maxpower

Two things...

1) An out of court settlement in no way constitutes proof that what was claimed actually happened.

2) WRT spark plugs, you are actually claiming that if I install Autolite, NGK, AC Delco or some brand other than Champion spark plugs in a 1985 ChryCo vehicle with a turbo charger, start the engine, disconnect the coolant sensor and check the ignition timing with a stroboscopic timing light, I'll see different timing setting between the different brands of spark plugs?

Reply to
aarcuda69062

The service department that you work in must have to give away an awful lot of free service work if you can't tell the difference between a 2002 Chrysler Sebring with a 3.0 liter engine and

1993-96 Jeep Cherokees and Grand Cherokees with 5.2 liter engines.
Reply to
aarcuda69062
1) An out of court settlement in no way constitutes proof that what was claimed actually happened.

DONT NEED TO ,

formatting link
read on a.. Oct 4, 1996 : Chrysler disclosed in a letter to the Office of Defects Investigation that it knew of 98 incidents of unintended acceleration between 1993 and 1996 involving Cherokees and another 241 involving Grand Cherokees ref: See Section 9-Links & References CHRYSLER a.. A group of independent engineering experts claims to have uncovered a defect specific in the 1993-96 5.2 litre V8 Grand Cherokee. If cruise control is left in the ON position a short to ground in the power control module connector can cause the vehicle's engine to race. The short is said to be caused by water, moisture etc. getting into the connector and causing corrosion. ref: See Section 9-Links & References CHRYSLER : Strategic Safety. Special investigation Chrysler Cherokee 1998

2) WRT spark plugs, you are actually claiming that if I install

I AM SAYING. and not sure of all the plugs that were affected but i dont see many of these vehicles in the shop. But a/c delco and Bosch plugs and some others would cause the timing to flucuate severly at idle, CUST COMPLAINT idles very rough, Naturally if you disconnect the coolant sensor it goes into limp , fan turns on and the timing is back to base timing and you would get a steady reading. Idle on those vehicles were controlled by timing, Stern is wrong.. Cuda, the next time you work on one. See it for your self. You may have already had them in the shop, put a timing lite on it and watch the mark, with thecoolant sensor connected, then install champion plugs and put the lite on it and see how stable the mark is, And then notice how smooth the idle is

Reply to
maxpower

Reply to
maxpower

On Sat, 22 Jan 2005, aarcuda69062 wrote, evidently in response to "maxpower":

Believe it or don't, he actually "thinks" this. Below are his idiotic, stupid, ignorant and baseless claims on the topic:

First this:

Newsgroups: rec.autos.makers.chrysler From: "damnnickname" Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 07:04:13 -0500 Subject: Re: 85 turbo - coughs on heavy accel load

DO NOT USE PLATINUM PLUGS OR BOSH PLUGS< USE ONLY CHAMPION< i belive they were rn12yc, some plugs will mess with the timing of the power module and cause all kinds of idle problems. Almost like it is searching because the timing is flucuating so bad

===

When called on his idiocy, he responded as followed:

Newsgroups: rec.autos.makers.chrysler From: "maxpower" Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 13:05:13 -0500 Subject: Re: 85 turbo - coughs on heavy accel load

Idle was controlled by the timing back then, With autolite/bosh and some other plugs.I say use Champion because I no that was the only one that I know didnt create a problem. The Power Module saw the resistors in them and caused the timing to jump all over, causing extreme idle problems hesitation problems and more I would bet you are one of those guys that put everypart on the car untill given up and told your cust to take it to the dealer... Is that so? The next time you get one of these vehicles, put a timing lite on it and see for youself, but then again I bet you dont know how to use one and here once again, you have no clue what you are talking about

====

So, to answer your question: Yes. In what passes for the brain between maxpower's ears, the 1985 Chrysler 2-module engine management system was so advanced that it actually knew the difference between Champion's 10kohm spark plug resistors and Autolite's 10kohm spark plug resistors and Bosch's 10kohm spark plug resistors, and if it saw anything other than Champion spark plugs, it went wild 'n' crazy and threw a timing disco party. Amazing feats o' magic, eh?

-DS

Reply to
Daniel J. Stern

Okay, now where is the connection between the Jeeps, Fords, Buicks and radar guns aimed under the hood cited in your link and the 2002 Chrysler Sebring? All you've managed to do Glen is point out that there have been failures associated with -some- cruise control systems, that does not mean that all cruise controls or even this cruise control will behave or -did- behave the same.

Ever do a WOT test on an engine with it in gear with an engine analyzer connected? Ever check the stall speed of a torque convertor?

I have, hundreds of times, and not once were the vehicles brakes incapable of holding the car back.

Whoa, stop right there. Then the spark plugs per-se are not causing the timing change. If the plugs don't change the base timing (which you seem to agree to) then the only thing that can be changing the timing is a signal sent to the logic module (since disconnecting the coolant sensor takes the logic module out of the picture), that signal most likely being from the knock sensor, due to the wrong heat range spark plug being used, IOWs, the same result would happen if the wrong heat range Champion spark plug were to be used, so it is NOT the brand of spark plug that is causing the problem, it is the implementation of heat ranges, the practice of part number overlap that is the actual cause. Specifically; the vehicles in question had the capability to retard timing for individual cylinders. Specifically: you claimed that the power module "sees" something from the plugs in question, yet the power module (for the sake of this discussion) only switches the coil primary, and whether or not the coolant sensor connector is connected or not, the power modules function in this regard does not change.

I can tell you specifically which AC Delco and which Bosch spark plugs caused the problems that you observed; Delco: it was the Rapid Fires Bosch: it was any of their gimmicky crappy platinum plugs. Why? because those two are the biggest offenders in the "one part number fits 5 heat ranges, the customer will never know and we couldn't give a damn--it's all about the bucks" game.

I don't disbelieve what you saw Glen, but I do have issues with your explanation of why and how.

Reply to
aarcuda69062

Reply to
maxpower

Like i said, see it for yourself, im not going to make you believe it. The computer sees it and tries to maintian correct idle by controlling the timing

All you've managed to do Glen is point out that there have been failures associated with -some- cruise control systems, that does not mean that all cruise controls or even this cruise control will behave or -did- behave the same. EXACTLY!!! thats all i was trying to do..TRY TO READ WHAT I SAID RATHER THEN TRY TO MAKE AN ARGUMENT OUT OF IT,,,,, for the lame I made it easier, read below

It was awhile ago and cant remember the details. It was not a particular model or make vehicle either. I believe it had something to do with the vent valve on the servo. CAN YOU READ IT EASIER NOW IT SAYS NO A PARTICULAR MAKE??? YOUR BUTT BUDDY STERN SAID IT WASNT POSSIBLE< get you head out of his ass

Reply to
maxpower

Yes I do, which is why I ask; what does 4 model years of Jeep have to do with this 2002 Chrysler Sebring?

I'll start with the simple stuff.

What parts interchange between the Jeeps mentioned and the Sebring in the subject line? (besides the oil filter)

Reply to
aarcuda69062

Yes, I'd definitely think that an attorney would be an authority on electronic systems. Major corporations settle law suits all of the time whether they feel they are at fault or not. The decision is based on economics, not technical reality. The Crown Vic may well have a defect, but this hardly establishes that.

Matt

Reply to
Matt Whiting

OR WAS IT POSSIBLE THERE WAS A PROBLEM

WERE YOU IN HER CAR DOWN BY HER FEET TO SEE THIS MR STERN?? HOW DO YOU BASE YOUR FINDINGS MR STERN?

IS THIS REALLY TRUE< I WANT TO HEAR IT ONE MORE TIME PLEASE

Ah, right, here we go with the "sudden, full, completely unintended activation of the cruise control despite the car being in reverse, below the threshhold speed AND the brakes allegedly applied" theory. THAT IS CORRECT

Have you ever heard of Occam's Razor? It's a scientific principle that says the simplest explanation is usually the correct one. Now, which is simpler? A or B?AND WE WILL LET MR STERN ANSWER THIS ONE, PICK YOUR ANSWER PAL

Believe it or don't, he actually "thinks" this. Above are his idiotic, stupid, ignorant and baseless claims on the topic:

Reply to
maxpower

Stupid would be you. What else would explain your lack of ability to operate a newsreader, YOUR newsreader. You have posts from multiple authors attributed to me, that makes you a king sized bozo and a person not to be taken seriously.

Now, why do you suppose the problem with Jeep cruise controls stops at MY 1996? What makes you think that just because there was a problem with Jeep cruise controls in MY 1993, 94, 95 and 96, there is a problem with 2002 Chrysler Sebring cruise controls?

I have plenty of friends, even the more stupid ones are much smarter than you.

And it is possible that it isn't related to the cruise control, but citing incidences of ten year old Jeeps and 18 year old Fords as any way related is just plain ignorant. Camshaft failures were real common on 70s era Chevrolets and Oldsmobiles, maybe you should warn the OP about -that- also. Something like; ATTENTION snipped-for-privacy@aol.com Certain Chevrolet and Oldsmobile engines produced in the 1970s suffered from premature camshaft wear, since you own a 2002 Chrysler Sebring, you should be aware that there is a possibility of premature camshaft wear based upon evidence obtained when reviewing failure records of the previously mentioned General Motors divisions.

It's got nothing to do with the "details" it has a lot to do with what should be obvious, like the make and model year.

Reply to
aarcuda69062

Reply to
maxpower

Reply to
maxpower

Whoa, now you're claiming that it's the *computer* that "sees" it. Before, you had claimed that it was the "Power Module." You DO realize that those are two distinct, different components, don't you Mr. Bigshotdealershiptechnician?

You don't get it, you probably never will. You are unprofessional and irresponsible. If Chrysler ever got wind of what you're posting in this thread, you'd be blacklisted from every dealership on the planet. Your comments are pure conjecture with NO basis in fact. You're probably a gun grabber. You are a buffoon, you can't keep two different components straight, hell, you can't tell a Ford from a Jeep from a Chrysler from a Buick, logic escapes you, odds are you work the wash rack and sneak an occasional peek over a real mechanics shoulder, because no person who repairs automobiles for a living could be as stone cold dense as you.

Reply to
aarcuda69062

Idle was controlled by *what*?

Reply to
Joe Pfeiffer

Your posts look like shit, if I reply, my newsreaders spell checker lights up like Las Vegas during a light bulb convention, your replies run into the text of the person that you're replying to, you fail at skills that are normally achieved by the age of ten, and your logic and reasoning skills mimic those of a Yorkshire Terrier, your stories change which makes them less than believable, you insist on things that you obviously don't even have a basic understanding of, hipcrime spam attacks are easier to read than one of your posts, one can only imagine how many hours per week your service manager has to waste trying to decipher what you've documented on your repair orders, you've shown evidence that you don't understand the basics of how an internal combustion engine operates, you're a parts changer, you embody every complaint ever lodged against Jiffy Lube, you mis-attribute posts, 78.6% of what you post makes no sense at all.

Reply to
aarcuda69062

Reply to
maxpower

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