the latest on my 1999 grand voyager 3.3

I posted a while back about my 1999 grand voyager 3.3 flex fuel van. I've been working on it but it still isn't right. The engine runs roughly because it is getting way too much gasoline. All spark plugs are wet with gas when checked. There are new plugs, wires, EGR valve and PCV valve, which I replaced because they all needed it. Things are slightly better but the engine still has a severe problem.

It won't start unless I push the accelerator, because of the excessive fuel. It will not idle. When it runs, it runs roughly and makes a black mark under the tail pipe as well as a cloud of unburned gasoline. I haven't been able to find any vacuum leaks. The check engine light doesn't come on, and a scan tool doesn't show any codes. The injectors all make the proper clicking noises when checked with a stethoscope, and it holds fuel pressure when the engine stops, which tells me that I don't have an open injector.

The only thing that I can point to as being wrong right now is that the fuel pressure is at 60 psi while running, instead of the 49 psi specified in the manual. I looked up the fuel pressure regulator for this vehicle and found that it is a $100 part, so I got one from a wrecked van at the self serve junkyard for $3. I would rather have a new one of course, but I couldn't pass up that kind of savings. I installed the new (used) one, started it up, and read the fuel gauge at

60, just like the one I had just replaced! What are the odds of that? Do you suppose the former owner junked that van for the same problem mine has? Incidentally, my other van, a 1999 Voyager 4 cylinder, has the fuel pressure dead-on at 49 psi, and it runs great.

Considering that I don't have a lot of dough to spare, I figure I could try another $3 part from the graveyard (it's no so hard to get the tank up and down, etc), or buy a new one for $100, and see if correct fuel pressure makes it run right.

Alternatively, I could take it to the local dealer shop for a $90 diagnosis to get an expert opinion of what is causing the problem. I suspect that if I ask them, they will simply tell me that I have a bad pressure regulator, even though something else may be wrong with it that I haven't even considered yet....

What would you do first? I'm kind of leaning toward the $3 part myself. Can you guys think of any other factors in addition to bad fuel pressure that may cause this problem? Or should I just shut up and change the regulator again?

Reply to
Robert Reynolds
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A 10psi increase in fuel pressure is not going to soak the spark plugs. I'd be looking elsewhere.

If all the spark plugs were WET with gas, it wouldn't run at all. Are you sure they're ALL wet?

Have you put a scanner on it to view sensor data? Has the ignition system been properly checked? Plug wires properly routed? Injector wires properly routed?

Reply to
bllsht

Reply to
bllsht

If you are using a scan tool and not a code reader what is the MAP sensor Baro and vacuum reading at idle? A MAP sensor that is reading very low vacuum at idle would dump alot of fuel in each cylinder and would cause this problem. If it is out if calibration and sees 10 to 15 inches of vacuum at idle the map sensor thinks the engine is under a load and holds the injectors open for a longer time thus causing a rich flooded condition at idle, Forget about fuel pressure right now.

Glenn Beasley Chrysler Tech

Reply to
maxpower

Not sure what book you are using but FYI, The flex fuel pump pressure specs is not the same as a standard system. Flex Fuel pressure spec is 55 psi.

Glenn

Reply to
maxpower

Well, it does run, and they are damp but not dripping.

I'm learning more about scanners from you guys. Apparently I misspoke, and we were actually using a code reader. The ignition and injectors are set up properly, and I did a visual check where I determined that sparks are hitting the heads of the plugs. I haven't checked compression because it didn't seem logical to suspect that.

You guys have some good ideas. Thanks.

Reply to
Robert Reynolds

Wow, this is the kind of tip I was hoping for. Thanks for the info about the diagnostic devices. We were using a less sophisticated type that just reads codes. I had suspected that the guys at the dealer shop would have better equipment that would allow them to read actual conditions from the various sensors.

Could the MAP sensor be so bad that it even causes rich running at 3 to

4 thousand RPM? It's so bad at idle that it doesn't idle. It gets better at driving speeds, but not better enough to be right. If I want it to run long enough to put the charge back on the battery after my latest cranking experiment I have to hold it at about 3K to 4K, which is when the black spot appears under the exhaust.

Thanks for sharing your expertise. You guys are great.

Reply to
Robert Reynolds

Reply to
philthy

Reply to
philthy

You were right about the MAP sensor. I checked the voltage and it was bad, so I replaced it and it no longer dumps a ton of gas into the engine. Apparently this van has a lot of things broken...

Apparently cylinder #2 isn't working. When I run it for a few minutes the exhaust manifold will be finger-burningly hot at #4 and #6, but at #2 it's just slightly warm. The #2 plug is black with carbon and smells like gasoline. The ignition system has the correct primary and secondary resistance, and it has power at all 6 cylinders. Plugs and wires are all new.

Once in a while, but not always, there will be a backfire through the intake when cranking. This has happened only a few times. There seems to be extra noise in the intake and exhaust while running, but this could be simply due to the necessity of holding the throttle open slightly to keep it running.

I'm starting to think that a compression test would be in order, as suggested in another post, although it seems that the dead cylinder wouldn't drag the engine to a stop if it didn't have good compression.

Reply to
Robert Reynolds

Reply to
DanHayes

That worked on my '86 Le Baron GTS and also works on my '95 Concord. A very handy feature which has led me to several problems I fixed myself. I have the shop manual showing the codes, I believe I also saw them online.

Reply to
Some O

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