What is "initial quality" as per the commercials?

You keep seeing these commercials that refer to a model being "ranked first in it's class in initial quality by JD Powers..."

What exactly is "initial quality"?

Reply to
Doc
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Sound like a lot of advertising Jingo Bullshit which has no merit in the real world. Do you honestly have the time of day for any F****** advertising?

Reply to
torque wrench

Problems rates during the early days of ownership. I don't recall what JD Power uses, but I think it is either 3 or 6 months. Some folks call it "build" quality as it relates to the number of defects essential built into the vehicle at the factory, as compared to things that fail in service.

Matt

Reply to
Matthew S. Whiting

Unfortunately the website is down or something, so I can't give you their exact definition.

The initial quality survey is a survey of new car buyers trying to capture problems related to the actual assembly of the cars. Number of initial defects per XXX number of cars. They do other surveys on customer satisfaction, and long term reliability.

James Linn

Reply to
James Linn

I think 'initial quality' refers to all these vehicles you see running around these days - mostly imports - that use letters and numbers instead of a real name for their model designation. Such as MPV, RAV4, etc.. Must be a rating someone does of which one has the best quality initials.

Reply to
Loose Cannon

Approximately 9/20/03 07:43, Doc uttered for posterity:

You buy a car, you *may* be contacted by JD Powers, Maritz Marketing, etc. to participate in a survey on the things you found wrong with the car in the first 30 days. The dealer is very likely to offer to "help" you with answers to this survey, so take if from that how valuable it really is.

Reply to
""L0n.$towell"

I don't see how they offer to help you - when I completed one, I doubt the dealer *knew* I did, though they contacted me about a complaint I mentioned in the survey itself, where I complained about the sales staff. I found it sort of patronizing that no one would help me until the sole black salesman was free, and then HE was incredibly patronizing, treating me (a 40-year old professional buying a Honda) like I was some hip-hop-crazed kid more concerned about the stereo than any other feature on the car. Emanuel

Reply to
Emanuel Brown

Some sales staff can be real morons. When I went with my wife to buy her last car, the sales person kept talking to me as if my wife wasn't there, even when we repeatedly told her the car was for her, and she took the test drive...

Reply to
Tony Muscarella

Approximately 9/21/03 03:07, Emanuel Brown uttered for posterity:

Dealers don't know that *you* will be getting a survey, however indeed dealers have been known to simply tell all buyers that if the buyer *does* receive a survey, the dealership is very willing if not eager to "help" them with all that complicated paperwork.

Reply to
""L0n.$towell"

And people have fallen for that? Emanuel

Reply to
Emanuel Brown

A lot of people bought Cavaliers, too.

nate

Reply to
Nate Nagel

Who knows, who cares- its a made-up term.

"Best initial quality" probably means fewest number of defects when delivered, or maybe within the first xxx weeks of ownership.

Reply to
Steve

Approximately 9/22/03 11:51, Nate Nagel uttered for posterity:

And K Cars. Some even bought more than *one* K Car which pretty much answers the question.

Reply to
Lon Stowell

Yup. You can be like Lloyd Parker. Buy a Mercedes 300E and then spend your days crowing on the American car forums how great the quality is.....

only to find out that the Mercedes E class is at the bottom of the long-term quality rankings....down there with Volkswagon and Kia.

So it holds together long enough for those initial quality cards to be sent out and then quickly spirals into a series of expensive repairs and annoying rattles. Woo hoo. You go, boyeee!!!

C
Reply to
Chris Mauritz

I'm curious where you get the impression that VWs are "at the bottom" of long term quality rankings. Now I don't particularly follow CR et. al. but IME if you want a car to last forever you could do a lot worse than a VW. It's the stupid *little* non-critical problems that drive you apeshit with them...

nate

Reply to
Nathan Nagel

Most likely due to someone failing to do the required valve adjustment at the required 3000 mile interval?

Bill Putney (to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with "x")

Reply to
Bill Putney

Leasing for 2-3 years takes the worry out of "long-term" reliability. Car is in warranty for the entire time.

Reply to
Lloyd Parker

Nope, it was a GTI 16V (hydraulic lifters) - I've actually got the tools and shims to do the adjustment on my solid lifter cars. ISTR the service interval being quite a bit longer than 3K miles though...

nate

Reply to
Nathan Nagel

No, I think you're touching on one of the subtexts of this thread: different measures of quality. When I lived in Germany, VW's were perceived as high-quality cars there, at the same time that they were ranking near the bottom in the U.S. The difference, I'm convinvced, was that quality was judged differently. The U.S., at that time, was focused on things like the Power initial quality measure: the number of things that were "wrong" with a new car. Germans would get a copy of the auto club magazine, which published breakdown statistics. The Americans were concerned with how often the car had to go back to the dealer, no matter how trivial the problem; the Germans wanted to know that the car wouldn't leave them by the side of the road. That doesn't mean that one quality metric is "better" than the other; each has its place, and carmakers try to do well on all of them.

Reply to
Stephen H. Westin

Do you mean stupid little annoying problems like manual transmissions that lose fourth and fifth gear? Or timing belt tensioners that jam and take out the valve train? Or things like door handles that literally fall off the car? Or maybe the thick coat of oil on everything under the hood? Or maybe the power windows that stop working after three years? Or maybe it is the silly release bearing mechanism that wears out years before the clutch? Fine German engineering at its peak. We have owned a bunch of different car brands in my family and the only cars less reliable that a VW were a Toyota and several British cars. I actually though about buying a Jetta TDI because of the terrific fuel economy, but then I came to my senses and remembered it was a VW.

Ed

Reply to
C. E. White

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