Would You Buy a Car from Chrysler?

You've been calling me skippy - I just thought you liked names of different brands of peanut butter as terms of endearment.

My statement still stands - you never actually discuss the issues. You just like to stir crap up and then start the name calling when someone responds. You know - kind of like trolls.

Oh, I see, the way your trollish posts have had anything to do with the cost of putting lug nuts on at the manufacturer or at the dealership. Simply asserting your opinion prevails. It all makes sense now.

Straight up - in all seriousness - the thread is titled "Would You Buy a Car from Chrysler". With all of the long-term damaging shenanigans that the gov't has been involved in that directly affect the automotive situation, discussion of anything to do with what the government is doing relative to the economy has as mush importance to the OP as whether or not, or why, it costs as much to get lugnuts installed at the dealer as it does at the factory (and that's ignoring the absolute apples and oranges nature of what you were saying on the subject anyway

- I mean, really - you showed some gross ignorance on that little sidetrack. Geeze).

IOW - what I discussed was directly related to the OP - no less-so, and arguably more-so, than the cost of putting lugnuts on at the dealer vs the cost of putting them on at the factory.

(snip, snip, snip)

just a word or two here.

First, 12 years ago i was a offset printer (i've since had 2 pounds of surgical steel wrapped around my spine so i can't do it anymore) and when someone brought up unions my first question was " what about those of us who decide not to join even though the union may get implimented?" That question still hasn't been answered. (yeah i admit it i'm an anarchist. I believe that each community should decide on what is best for itself, no state or federal overlords needed) So if someone wants to be in a union, sure go for it, but don't drag me along.

Second, a couple of things need to be clarified. seperation of church and state as expresed by Ted didn't come into it's own until the early to mid 1800's, and then it was because the protastants were afraid of the catholics taking over. Reading does wonders sometimes. The Constitutional clause merely states that the federal govt. cannot choose one religion over another, yep that's right they are all equal. imagine that. Also on democrate vs. republican. You do know that the US wasn't a two party state until the late 1800's? right... or do i need to go into the federals/republican/whigs ect

Third, obama and macain and "x" are the same. They are after politcal power no matter the party. Look at it this way, capitalism looks grerat on paper, for that matter so does socialism, but people don't seem to be able to control themselves and greed is a nasty trait. Be it greed for money, power or whatever. That's why things are they way they are. I wish we had another roy rogers today, someone to point out human failings and keep us honest...

Oh, I see, simply asserting your opinion on the comparative cost of installing lugnuts prevails. It all makes sense now...

Well, I have a proposal for that but I don't think you will like it much.

For any business that unionizes, employees who wish to opt-out of the union may do so. Since they are opting-out, they no longer fall under the collective bargaining agreement and thus any additional wage or benefit increases negotiated by the union, they won't get.

I told you, you wouldn't like it.

If you really don't like unions, then become a manager.

Yes it does. Here's a quote for you:

"when church and state are separate, the effects are happy, and they do not at all interfere with each other: but where they have been confounded together, no tongue nor pen can fully describe the mischiefs that have ensued."

I imagine you think that quote was made by a secular leader. No, sorry, it was by the Rev. Isaac Backus, the most prominent Baptist minister in New England in his day

I imagine you also think this quote dates from the early to mid 1800's

Sorry, it dates from 1773.

The Founding Fathers were well aware of the separation of church and state principle. As you say, reading does wonders.

How much percent did Ross Perot poll? There's always been plenty of political partys and even in recent years 3rd parties have been powerful enough to act as spoilers at times. Particularly in state races.

Why is this a problem? It just means they are ambitious and people who aren't ambitions certainly aren't going to be running for President. Would you rather have a President so unambitious that he spends

4 hours a day kicked back smoking weed?

The problem is what they do with that political power after they get it, whether they misuse it or not.

Things were a LOT worse a few centuries ago. People may be greedy, they may be lazy, they may be ignorant. But, the majority of them do want to do what is right, and do understand what good and evil are. If they didn't, we would still have slavery and all the rest of the bad things in history.

Of course, this is speaking mainly for Westernized societies. Russia is an enigma - but Russians are a lot closer to Westernized thought than they are to Eastern thought. Give them another century and they will be just like us.

Eastern thought is rather radically different but they are starting to understand, adapt, and adopt.

African societies are mostly a mess, but that's to be expected considering what the rest of the world has done to Africa over the years. However, at the least, we aren't being troubled by suicide bombers out of that continent so they have some idea of what is right, at least. And, they are making progress, and they WANT to make progress.

The Mid East, though, those societies are mostly no different than they were 2000 years ago, and that -includes- Israel. I personally feel that that area of the world is the millstone around the rest of the world's neck. It is very ironic as the Mid East is the birth location of human civilization. There was a time many thousands of years ago where humanity was far, far more advanced there, than anywhere else in the world, and was higher than any other humans anywhere else. Today, their attitudes to people, to each other, to the rest of the world - to them, life is meaningless, cheap, and expendable. It is no wonder that Jesus came from there, nowhere else had a greater need. And as for progress, that area is retarding, not advancing - and the people there are perfectly happy about it.

Ted

Bill, just to get further offtopic, have you ever visited the part of London named after you?

DAS

To send an e-mail directly replace "spam" with "schmetterling"

Actually, no. I've never really researched it in depth, but from what I have been told over the years, it is a district or suburb of London? Seems I remember someone saying that it was a run-down slummy area, but I may be mis-remembering. I have wondered if there are families named Putney there - no one has ever been able to tell me. I guess it would be as simple as looking in a London phone directory.

When I was a kid, my family bought a little toy double-decker bus - metal IIRC - not many things made of plastic then - don't remember if it was stamped sheet metal or die cast - I'm thinking die cast. Anyway, the route sign on it said "Putney" - I guess that's why whoever bought it bought it. :)

Not so. I like it and have done just that as did many others who voted against a union. Why should we pay some dumb ass greedy union leader tons of money when we already have great wages and benefits and a nice place to work with great managers?

Ted, instead of writing long essays on some non-descript usenet NG you should get out more...

;-) DAS

To send an e-mail directly replace "spam" with "schmetterling"

Putney is a suburb in south-west London (not that far away from the heart of the action), south of the river and slummy it isn't.

It is also the location of the start of the annual Oxford and Cambridge Universities boat race.

Although Wikipedia isn't necessarily always a good guide to anything, this item on such an uncontroversial subject seems ok:

And how to get there in style from central London:

Or this one from near me (a while ago):

And here is this mode of transport crossing Putney Bridge:

Etc etc.

Enjoy.

DAS

To send an e-mail directly replace "spam" with "schmetterling"

Wikitravel has some useful stuff including the Putney article and wikitravel doesn't have anything to do with the wikipedia, which wikipedia also has some useful stuff about Putney.

snippage.

While the project uses theMediaWiki software, which is also used by Wikipedia, Wikitravel is not aWikimedia project; it was begun and is operated independently.

You are describing how it works now, not how it might work better.

Perce

Thanks for the background. Wikitravel looks vaguely similar so I never focused on the real difference.

DAS

To send an e-mail directly replace "spam" with "schmetterling"

Proving once again, beyond a doubt, that it's all about Putney...

been there along with owner. your missing some things here. If workers deserve better wages ( be it from skill or standard of living or whatever) then they should get those wages. The problem isn't unions or managers per se, but the reasons for thier need. get an honest and good manager/owner and you don't need a union. Then again these days that's like finding chicken lips.

and?? you still can't see the forest for the trees. Look at it in context. Those europeans of religious background came here to get away from the throne and it's decision to back one religion over others. There was never any problem with say the ten commandment, just the idea that the federal govt. should back any relgion. Hence the problems many had with kennedy, it wasn't so much his views as the fear of giving the catholic church access to the white house. I happen to agree with the founding fathers. If you want to believe fine do so but don't ask the govt. to "sponsor" your religion over others. They are all equal like all men.

You should also note we are not nor ever were a democracy. The list of anti democracy quotes are rather long.

moot. In the past when we have had three or four parties they all got equal time, everywhere. The no long have that option since the two big parties have begun to push the weight around.

my problem is that it's aquision of power for powers sake. Not yours or mine or my neighbor down the street. Power corrupts and absolute power currupts abslolutly.

it wasn't as bad as you make it sound. Yes there were robber barons. but, that also was caused by a pooling of power. Unless the power is left in the hands of the people it will begin to "pool" around whoever can snatch it fastest. yeah i'm a cynic about everything.

no they won't. I have certain advantages here. I deal with russions. My church is russian. I understand the slavonic mind. To a russian, it's those who can't control themselves and be happy with life as it is that cause the problems. (very simplified). The russians do have an eastern mindset that they developed from byzatine. It's not based in science, or power, or money but living in harmony with everything.As they have lost that and become more western their society has begun to collapse. Many of them upon comming back here from visiting family over there have said the same things. People are looking to go back and are very upset with western ideaology.

also a mistaken position. In the eastern thought process it's polite to say yes while doing it your own way. So you see one thing and they are doing another.

agreed. There it's mass graves, rapes, and the stealing of relief from other countries to pay for guns and ammo for the warlords.

actually isreal is a "new" country. Was established in 1968. and they displaced (nice word for killed and forced the locals to move) the people living there (that would be the palastiens)

Joe

Someone wrote: "First, 12 years ago i was a offset printer (i've since had

2 pounds of surgical steel wrapped around my spine so i can't do it anymore) and when someone brought up unions my first question was " what about those of us who decide not to join even though the union may get implimented?" That question still hasn't been answered. (yeah i admit it i'm an anarchist. I believe that each community should decide on what is best for itself, no state or federal overlords needed) So if someone wants to be in a union, sure go for it, but don't drag me along."

I guess the answer to that would be depending on what state you live in. 22 states have a right to work. Right to work you are not required to join the union to work there. The other states require you to join if the shop is union.

Not quite so simple, but this is suppose be a car group. And of course you meant 1948, not 68.

DAS

There needs to be a balance between the needs of the business and the needs of the workers. When either side tips the balance their way problems exist. A greedy union can gain too much power and destroy a company just as much as a greedy business owner.