Yet another coolant thread - Matrix Chart

Other than hard water (I used only distilled), was there any

No, other than the possibility to precipitate magnesium and calcium as phosphate salts, I know of no other reason. Maybe I will research it when I get a few minutes. Perhaps there was something I missed.

We developed some organic phosphates which worked well, and did not seem to have the precipitation problems of the inorganics. These are still used in large quantities in some industries.

I use whatever the manufacturer recommends, but I flush and change out the coolant every couple of years.

As I mentioned before, there is no 100% perfect technology for mixed metallurgy found in todays systems.

Keeping the air out, which the surge tank or overflow tank helped accomplish, did a lot of good when they started to be used years ago.

The biggest problem I saw was a proper inhibitor for aluminum. Silicates weren't so very great, and they caused precipitation and blockage of radiators.

I havent worked on this in 4-5 years now, and hope that significant improvements have been made.

Phosphate has been known as an algae bloom and plant growth promoter for years, and soaps and detergents have been modified to decrease the outfall to the environment. Many products have little likelihood of ending up as a major pollutant, but if they contain certain compounds, they are discouraged or prohibited, as the case may be.

Phosphate has some other potentially problematic points, although not serious enough to lose sleep over. Magnesium and calcium can form sparingly soluble compounds with phosphate, so the possibility for mineral deposition is conceivable.

Some environmental scientists are, unfortunately, just full of shit. Reference the environmentalists in the United Kingdom who believe that frog and salamander mutations around certain watercourses, and human male fertility of the men who live nearby, have been effected by hormone concentrations in the water.

Source? The ladies, God love them, who take birth control pills,and then pee in septic systems along the river course.

I prefer infusion of hormones by a more direct route than drinking river water.

VW has had a bunch of their own boutique coolants over the last decade or so. I'm not sure how they relate to the G-05 Mopar/Zerex/Ford coolant, but they may be pretty close. The G is G-05 is Glysantin, which is a BASF product.

I noticed after I started the thread that Zerex states that their branded G-05 product is the same product as the Mopar and Ford products, except for the dye color. This isn't suprisingly since it had been reported by industry publications (e.g.

but I*am* surprised to see a manufacturer state this on the record. Usually OEMand private label manufacturers seem to be a closely held secret betweennthe brand name and the contract manufacturer. From Zerex's web page:

What aftermarket products are approved by Ford and Chrysler?

Ford, Lincoln, Mercury brands - Ford Motorcraft Gold and Zerex G-05 Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep brands ?Mopar 5/100 Antifreeze and Zerex G-05.

What is the difference between these products?

All products use the Zerex G-05 formulation. The only difference is the dye color.

(click on the FAQ link on the left side to make the FAQ questions/answersvisible.)

Yes they have. What they found out the hard way, apparently after you left, was that the right answer as far as silicates is that high silicates (traditional antifreeze) are not good, and zero silicates (OAT

- DexCool) are not good. A small amount of silicates is just right (HOAT - G-05). Prestone's All Makes All Models is probably similar (lessons learned).

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')

You know, I'm *still* not really clear on why traditional antifreeze is "bad," other than being a little hard on water pump seals- although that's never been a problem for my 60's vintage vehicles either. I've opened up VERY high-mileage mixed-metal (iron block/aluminum head or manifold) engines that have run their whole lives on old green Prestone and look brand new inside. Seriously- the aluminum passages inside the parts were in better shape than the painted or bare aluminum on the outside of the engine, and so was the iron.

Different formulators used differing amounts of silicate even back then. I tested a broad range of concentrations, and just didn't get the levels of protection I was happy with, at any concentration. But in formulations like this, 40-50% improvement over an untreated aluminum coupon was better than nothing.

Silicates can cause other problems too. If the pH drops, as it will do if there is ingress of combustion gases or if oxygen enters the system, or just with time alone, silicates can dehydrate to silica, or silicon dioxide¨ ...Not nice. Lots of work was done to try to inhibit the silica formation, but even high pH wouldn't do it. In time, it started falling out. Even using distilled water wouldn't prevent it. Some work promoted keeping the silica dispersed using polymers, etc, since the precipitation could not be stopped totally.

Silicates also form complexes or salts with magnesium, iron, etc. Many are essentially totally insoluble.

So this is the reason that an attempt was made to avoid silicates and market a 'new and improved' product. One whose time, perhaps, had not yet fully matured.