Diesel Starting Problem

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gurgled happily,


If you need to ask that you must be clueless as to how a clutch works, or not thinking before pressing 'Send'...!
If you are causing the release bearing to push against and hold the clutch diaphragm spring compressed (by depressing the clutch pedal) the crank will attempt to move way from the clutch cover, this movement will be within the crankcase and cause the crankshaft to be forced into heavy contact with crankshaft side thrust (end float control) bearings - this is why they are fitted, an engine doesn't need these thrust bearing unless there is a side thrust present. It's also possible to find the opposite happening if light pressure is applied to the clutch pedal were the engine has end float issues, you can find slight up and down movement of the clutch pedal.

Many, of all makes and models, fresh from the factory all should start with the clutch depressed, 50 / 70k down the road some will still start OK whilst other won't.
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Well my one has made it to 130,000+ so far. So I think its a little late to worry about it now, although like I said I don't always start it with the clutch pressed.
GGJ
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:Jerry: wrote:

I'm neither clueless nor unthinking. I find it difficult to accept that the small additional side thrust encountered in the 5(ish) seconds that it takes to start the engine has a significantly higher effect than the side thrust encountered during normal running. Let's face it, it takes hardly any more time to start the car than to change gear - and you do that far more times than starting up.
By your reckoning my Series 2a Land Rover with 460,000 miles on the clock should be on its 7th clutch by now, whereas it's actually on its second. Likewise, all the Discovery's I've owned should have been on their 2nd or 3rd - but were still running originals at 150k+. Ditto the current Xantia with 170k+ on its original clutch.
BTW, the Xantia owners handbook says you should depress the clutch whilst staring the engine (petrol or diesel) in cold weather.
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Steve G
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SteveG (_@_._) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

Bear in mind that some modern cars actually have a starter inhibitor switch on the clutch pedal to PREVENT you starting the car unless the pedal's planted...
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<snip>

Your point being what exactly? All the above would mean is that any engine with faulty crankshaft side thrust bearings might never start!
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Adrian wrote:

Just as I've never encountered a car exhibiting Jerry's non-starting due to excessive side thrust I've also never driven a car that MUST have the pedal depressed to start it. What have I missed out on?
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Steve G
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SteveG wrote:

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Two ignorant people don't change the facts though...
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:Jerry: ( snipped-for-privacy@INVALID.INVALID) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

Even when they're both you?
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:Jerry: wrote:

everything and never will ,i work as a peugeot master technician..but yours jerry unfortunately come across as pure bollocks. You may have so many years experience ..but its obvious you haven't been doing the nitty gritty stuff. kind regards mark
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You're a 'Peugeot master technician' then? That means you see only new or dealer maintained cars then, perhaps it's you who needs to do some nitty gritty stuff rather than spout the pure bollocks - if the dealer doesn't see the faults they can't exist...
I once had an argument with a BMC/BL senior parts manager as he could not accept that one could have a loose gear on the distributor / oil pump drive of a Maxi engine - 'cos he had never ever had to supply one in all his years - until I showed him the faulty one I had on the bench behind the engine hanging off the crane in front. Or the Ford dealers workshop manager, in front of engineers from Dagenham, who had never seen an incorrectly drilled oil-way in a cylinder head before - even though his workshop staff had fitted three (yes, 3) camshafts to the same CVH engine in question under warranty - they couldn't understand why one of the cams failed within a few hundred miles - quite nice seeing senior Ford Motor Co. management giving a right bollocking to their dealers rep' in the middle of the workshop of a small inde garage... :~)
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:Jerry: wrote:

stuff EVERY day of my life so do all other master techs. we don't always just see dealer cars or dealer maintained ones. we see vehicles from some independent garages who don't have the knowledge to fix the vehicles (not their fault). Maxi engine and cvh engine probs wow SO WHAT?? you've spotted a fault a dealer couldn't ?? don't you think we see things other dealers or indep. have missed so what ?? its going to happen . Theirs only one ignorant person in here and im afraid its you .."In 30 years experience i haven't HEARD OF POST HEATING" . "Real knowledge is to know the extent of ones ignorance"
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:Jerry: wrote:

Your personal assessments of me have no bearing on this discussion. Making the statements that I must be clueless, unthinking or ignorant without any knowledge of me, my qualifications, experience or occupation speak volumes to everyone else in this newsgroup.
To date, you have not produced one single fact: just anecdotal evidence from your experience, so here's a challenge for you.
Name me just one car that has an inhibitor on the clutch pedal that means it won't start without the clutch depressed as a standard fit item and just one that works the opposite way.
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In

The Renault Megane with the silly keycard thing won't start unless you have either the clutch or brake pedal depressed.
I had an Alfa once that wouldn't start no matter what you did to the clutch pedal :-)
--
Pete M - Using the Scouse Side of the Force -
Golf GTi,
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Pete M wrote:

I thought that was normal for Alfas?
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Malc

"Bother!" said Pooh, and hid Piglet's corpse
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Pete M wrote:

That's it, Pete, go and spoil it for me :-)
Here I am amusing myself baiting Jerry and you go ruin it <BCG>
The Megane is so ugly (at least it's rear end is) they should have put n inhibitor on it so that it wouldn't start unless you were a registered scrap merchant. No offence intended if you own and/or like the back end of the Megane :-)) Can you imagine the read end of the Megane married to the front end of a Fiat Multipla? Now that would be seriously ugly!
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I have found only one. In 1991 I drove a Citroen AX330 (cheaper version of a 2CV) and it did not start with the clutch depressed due to the side thrust.
I do think its a bit extreme to assume not using the clutch to start a modern car would be a standard practice though. I dont think it really matters and its safer to always depress the pedal.
--
Eduardo K. | Roses are #FF0000
http://www.carfun.cl | Violets are #0000FF
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Eduardo K. ( snipped-for-privacy@nn.spam.cl) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

A *what*...?
<thinks> Hold on a minute... .CL - Chile?
Some local variant of a 2cv? I know there were a few.
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Adrian wrote:

Adrian, ferchristsake... http://www.citroenet.org.uk/foreign/latin-america/chile/chile.html
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Yup. Made in Chile. I now drive (besides a BX and a Xantia) a 1979 Chilean assembled GS Club.
http://usuarios.lycos.es/citroen3cv/histchile.htm
--
Eduardo K. | Roses are #FF0000
http://www.carfun.cl | Violets are #0000FF
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