Adpating self-levelling Nivomats for the SD1 Vitesse?

The top mount might be tricky to modify - the lower one easier.

Luckily I got a new pair off Ebay a few years ago and they've usually got quite a good life.

I remember this being covered before. Wonder if the SD1 club archives can help? The forum on there is the popular one now - few seem to bother with the Yahoo groups. Which is sad as I hate forums - far prefer email groups.

Doesn't have to be. IME, If suitable springs and shocks are fitted the ride doesn't suffer.

When I bought my '85 Vitesse in 1988 I had a similar problem. One Nivomat needed replacing.

At that time, whilst discounted standard Nivomats could be bought for around £70 each, the shorter Vitesse ones were twice the price. A little to rich as I always like to fiit springs and shocks in pairs. £280 in '88 was quite a lot of money.

So, I decided to do away with the Nivomats, and use a std setup and ordered a pair of 50mm lower springs and a pair of adjustable Konis.

The first pair of springs supplied were too long, so I sent them back and they were replaced by a pair that gave me the correct unladen ride hight. After a few adjutments to the Konis, I finally arrived at a setting that was satisfactory.

A ride that was as comfortable as when it had Nivimats, albeit with one that was knackered. Roadholding was excellent, with little roll, and the loss of self levelling not really noticeable, even with 5 adults on board.

Obviously the Vitesse with it's lowered and stiffer suspension will never give as soft a ride as any of the other SD1 models but IMO it's better handling more than makes up for it's harder ride.

I had two 2600's with Nivomats before I got my Vitesse, and IMO the Vitesse is much more of a drivers car, with totally different handling to a std SD1,.and TBH I prefer it's harder ride.

I can't answer this part of your question fully. I can only tell you that as far as my personal experience is concerned, if you get the right springs, preferably from a Co that makes them to order, as I did, you should be as happy as I am with the result. Mike.

Quite the reverse of my experience.

I've had my EFI for some 20 years. So safe to assume the suspension was pretty decent at 30,000 odd from new. When a Nivomat failed many years later, I changed to Konis and regular springs. And I couldn't get a setting which gave reasonable comfort one up without being too soft when loaded - to the point of hitting the bump stops. I was delighted to get some new Nivomats when they became available again.

It could be the stiffer suspension means there's less difference than on a standard height car. But FWIW I find the Vitesse ride just too hard for London roads. And my backside. ;-)

Well, the 2600 has different weight distribution and smaller wheels and tyres. You'd need to a Vitesse and EFI to do a true comparison.

FWIW, given the cost cutting on the SD1, I can't see Rover fitting variable rate springs and Nivomats if conventional was just as good.

The springs I ordered were from a spring manufacturer. Maybe they were off the shelf, but they were supplied to a specific spring rate, and loaded length.. Not the std Vitesse constant rate replacement springs that many suppliers were advertising at the time. Those were the first springs I tried. In fact I believe I still have them in my garage, and like yourself found them too soft. Car bottoming etc. Hence my specific order.

We've had this discussion before. Personally I feel more comfortable with a firm ride. In this respect the Vitesse, IMO, gives a good compromise between comfort and a ride that is too hard. What also might make difference, is that I think the Vitesse seats are more comfortable and supportive than those in other models, inc the EFI.

Fairy nuff, but the Vitesse does have less roll and a firmer ride. On rough roads the Vitesse might give a jiggly ride, but IMO on the open road that disadvantage is more than compensated for by it's sharpness and the improved feeling it gives back through the steering.

I think that was probably due to the market it was aimed at. Like other SD1's in the range, I believe that having self levelling was seen as a selling point for the more expensive versions. Not for any other reason,.and with the Vitesse they were trying to cater for both the sporty driver and the executive type who might load the car up for a dash to the south of france or wherever.

With a heavy load, having self levelling suspension probably does help, but for the majority of motoring I don't think it's any better than a good std setup, which I believe I've achieved on my Vitesse without using Nivomats.

And, bear in mind that it was not a cheap car when it first came out. At the time, it and the EFI were competing with other executive cars. Like BMW's and Mercedes, so self levelling was probably seen as a plus in that market.

Of course doing extremely well on the track must have helped their sales figures, but I doubt the track versions had Nivomats :-) Mike..

But you now have a BMW E39? That has a softer ride than even a standard SD1 but handles better.

Maybe - but the leather ones are the same?

I'll give you the less roll. But I don't think it's that noticeable when driving a standard car. Although it is from the outside.

My experience says it's essential if you don't want the rear bottoming.

But did you ever drive it hard with a full load?

Certainly essential to provide a reasonable ride/handling compromise with a crude beam axle. BMW and Merc had long moved on to independent rear ends. As had Rover, before the need to cut costs.

Extremely well? You must have rose tinted specs. ;-)

But the requirements for a racing car have nothing to do with a road one.

If you have a family of four and 80 bottles of wine in the car and you're driving from the south of France with the back of the car about a quarter of an inch away from the bump stops, it jolly well does suffer!

My two Vitesses are both classic cars and everyday working vehicles (I don't do any daily commuting).

"Ride" isn't just about the ride. People have families, luggage, a bag or two of sand, or some bathroom tiles, from the builder's yard, or something.

If I never put anything heavy in the car then obviously I might be happy with a set of adjustable shocks and springs set exactly to my desired ride comfort level for the weight of the car when empty. But that's not the point, is it? That's mainly why I'm asking about it.

I do *often* put things in the car: a wife and two toddlers. With or without luggage. Or my saxophones, stage stands/light and music for my

Nivomats aren't just about spring rate and damping. They are about levelling. That is the respect in which shocks and springs are "inferior", as I said originally.

Michael

I'm sure that depends on the spring and shock settings. Mine only bottoms under exceptional circumstances. On a road with the sort of undulations one would expect it has never bottomed. Even when quite heavily loaded. When I had my business, I often used to deliver press tools in it rather than use my van. Anything up to 2cwt at a time. It didn't make that much difference to the ride hight, so most of the suspension travel was still there.

Not really, as I never drive hard with passengers. I might drive fast, but not when cornering. IME most passengers don't like being flung sideways on bends. :-)

Probably, but if memory serves they had some notable successes in production car races in the mid to later 80's

Wasn't the Vitesse developed by BL's motor sports division? Mike. .

I don't expect you to believe it, but my Vitesse handles better than eiither of my BMW's, even though the E34 has dealer fitted M-Tech suspension.

AFAIA leather covered bucket seats were never a listed option Cloth covered ones were std in the Vitesse. Maybe a few leather covered ones were fitted for special orders. Or maybe a few customers had leather seats out of the EFI fitted or the Vitesse bucket seats recovered.. I don't know. All I do know is that IMO the bucket seats in my car are far more comfortable than the leather seats that were in one of my 2600's.

TBH I just don't like leather seats anyway. I find them hot in the summer. Lack of ventilation I suppose, compared to cloth, and more slippery into the bargain. It's one thing I don't like about my E39. I much prefer the cloth sports seats in my E34. Mike.

I have run both my Vitesse with no bump stops (because they were complete shot to pieces - the rubber completely disintegrated) until I realised what it was and replaced them.

Believe me, when your bump stops are shot to bits you *really* know (and hear, and feel) when the back bottoms out all right! And remember, if the rubber is gone completely that means at least an inch of extra suspension travel before the the lower spring mount hits the upper with an almighty clank.

So...

With only myself and Alena in the car, no other load, on quite a number of ordinary roads with speed bumps or rather noticeable pot holes (but nothing extreme in the same of being "exceptional circumstances" as you put it), I could bottom out quite a number of times.

When your bump stops are in good shape you can't always tell when you bottom out.

So, with the Rimmers yellow uprated "Vitesse ride height" springs and Spax adjustables (set reasonably hard), bottoming out is not too difficult to achieve. That is supposedly a roadworthy replacement for the Nivomat suspension.

Michael

Ah - that's why you think the Vitesse has a reasonable ride. My E39 has standard suspension and wheels.

Really? I've seen a few with them. But Rover would sell you what you wanted - to order.

I know I have stronger springs than those commonly supplied as replacements.

The first springs I fitted were sold as replacement Vitesse springs, without Nivomats. Even with the spax set hard, I had the same problem you had. The car bottomed too easily. On top of that it rolled more than it did even before when it had a knackered Nivomat. Leading me to believe the springs were simply not hard enough.

I forget the name of the Co that I got my springs from, but as well as supplying springs or shocks for various models, they also made, or had made, springs to order.

Took quite a lot of deliberation before I came up with a spec that I thought would give me what I was looking for.

They did cost about £15 more each than the 'Vitesse replacement springs' though. The first set they sent were too long, so I sent them back. The second set are those fitted to the car at present.

Although the car has done many thousands of miles since they were fitted, the last time I was under the car the bump stops showed no signs of wear. In fact little signs of contact whatever.

Having said all that, I appreciate that your requirements are different to mine, but failing in your search for a Nivomat replacement, I think you might find that fitting stronger springs is an acceptable compromise. Mike.

I accept that my Vitesse is not everyones cup of tea, but for the reasons I've given I much prefer a stiff suspension setup. My E39 also has std suspension, but with 17" wheels, which I believe, at least from the handbook, was a listed option. Mike.

IIRC, the principle of the Nivomat makes it an anti-roll device to some extent, given it attempts to keep a constant ride height.

It's a relatively easy matter to make a car 'handle' well by stiffer springs etc. Getting a decent ride/handling compromise is the difficult bit. Which many modern makers with far more sophisticated rear suspension systems still don't manage. I'm utterly amazed just how hard the ride is on many modern cars. I have a neighbour with a new BMW 535d - and that is simply awful over roads I know well.

It is, and spoils the ride. Like most ultra low profile tyres.

Not by any significant amount on normal roads. Only on rough roads is the difference noticeable . Remember, I had a '98 528i as well, before I sold it and kept the one I have now. That had std wheels and there was hardly any difference in ride between thr two. Of course that could have been down to the tyres it had, which were not particularly good quality, but I don't think that better tyres would have made a noticeable difference. Mike.

We all have our likes and dislikes. I prefer a harder ride. You prefer one that is softer. One can't argue that one choice is better than the other In the end it comes down to personal preference.

My son had an Octavia VRS TDI last year as a company car. Maybe a little rough around the edges, but it went like stink with a firm ride. The sort of ride I like, but I can quite see that the ride quality could be a criticism levelled at it by someone who prefered a softer more compliant ride. Someone like yourself for instance. :-) Mike.

Where do you find 'normal' roads in the UK? ;-) Apart from some motorways most are appalling. Especially London ones.

Not my experience having a pal with a near identical car with larger wheels. The 16" made less difference. Not that I'm holding up the E39 as a paragon of good ride. It's merely adequate.

Tyres do matter. I've got Colway remoulds on the SD1 and the difference from the previous Avons was considerable. Better in every way. Apart from wear which is too early to tell.

Yup. It's certainly the fashion to have poor riding cars. Luckily I'm not much of a blind follower of fashion.