Another car, another problem - Page 3

Jim Warren wrote:


What you describe is typical of the MG as well, I would have a look at
voltage drop then. (Wiring on older cars can deteriorate especially BMC
products.)

Pull the wires off the regulator and fuse box then put them back on,
could be a dirty connection there. Not sure if they are screw connectors
or spade, which ever, clean them up.

The generator goes to the regulator then the ign switch. In other words
its not direct power to start the car.

Basically you have a wire that goes from the solenoid to the ign switch
(white /red trace) then a white wire goes from the ign switch to the
fuse, but not through the fuse itself, then on to the coil and
distributor. Basically all the white wires joined together go through
the ign switch, this is your power to feed the coil.

You can also bridge both the fuses and start the car from the solenoid
without the key being turned on. This will give you ignition power. This
will check for voltage drop through the ignition switch.

r

Warren says...

I had this on my Capri with a Weber 32/36 DGAS carburettor. Turned out
the carburettor was worn. There's a tube in the middle of each choke.
Fuel passes from the float chamber into this tube and is then dispersed
into the barrel. What had happened is this tube had become loose so the
fuel was just dribbling down the side of the barrel instead of going
into the tube. Upshot was that it'd start when cold when the choke came
on but not when it was hot. Once it had started, it seemed to run OK.

Same symptoms as you seem to be experiencing. Yeah I know its a
completely different carb but its worth a look.

As an aside, there's a dodgy batch of rotor arms doing the rounds. My
dad went through three, even buying a new dizzy as he thought it was
that, before he got one that worked OK. Basically what was happening
was that the metal strip which acts as a kind of spring retainer wasn't
doing the job so it wobbled about after a while. The first replacement
came from near Northampton, the second from Driffield and the third was
mail order from the owners club - all with the same fault.


--
Conor

I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't
looking good either. - Scott Adams

Conor wrote:

Yes, worth a look.  I did just once try pulling out the choke when it
wouldn't start, and it made no difference, though.

I tried buying a rotor arm from Wares while I was buying the coil.  Out
of stock, waiting for more to come in.  I can't see anything wrong with
the one currently fitted though, and once the engine starts it runs OK.

I will have to hunt around in the back of the garage.  Somewhere around
I should have a scrap dizzy with the bearings gone from a Dolomite, but
the rotor arm should be OK if it is still on it.  Better a known old one
than a doubtful new one, provided they are the same size.  At least it
will eliminate one option.

Jim

A hairdrier on the coil might show up a heat related thingie.

However, I'd be inclined to check carefully all the work done. If you have
a spare condenser try that too - they can be intermittent.

--
*Elephants are the only mammals that can't jump *

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

My guess would be the coil but I am reminded of a similar problem on a
Moggie 1000. You set the points correctly but due to wear in the distributor
spindle the points gap was erratic. Check the gap in several positions and
check the gap when it will not start. It's a long shot but it had me going
round in circles. Being pretty tight I averaged the gap in several
positions - not for people who are fussy!

Alan

Roberts wrote:


The car now has a brand new coil, and it hasn't made any difference at
all.  It is about to get a new set of HT leads, because the ones fitted
are too long and wind round each other to use up the slack.  So thanks
for the distributor wear idea - I can certainly check that out.

The trouble with buying a car you are not familiar with is that it is
almost impossible to tell what has been altered unless you can compare
it with a known unaltered one.  So for some information I am relying on
other owners to advise me.
And the other thing I wondered was whether there should be something
between the exhaust manifold and the carb to protect it from the heat?
All the diagrams in the workshop manual start with the assumption that
the carb is off the car, so I can't see what the installed state looks
like.  It just seems to be very close to something very hot, and I
wondered if that might affect hot starting.  When the engine is running,
there will be a cooling draught from the fan over the carb, but there is
scope for a vapour lock once the engine stops running.  Also, how does
air get into the petrol tank to replace the petrol pumped to the carb?
Is there a vent pipe, or does air go in around the petrol cap.  I ask
because it has a replacement cap, and I can't see any vent in it.

Jim

Hi Jim

Jim Warren wrote:

I've been watching this thread with interest - had one or two cars/bikes
both ancient and modern that had similar problems.

Here's a thought - run the car until she's warm. Stop, try to re-start -
if the fault occurs, try whipping the filler cap off the fuel tank....
If she starts & runs then that's your problem - need a new filler cap..

I had a Golf once that had a similar fault - turned out to be a blocked
vent in the filler cap - and the pump couldn't suck petrol through
against the vacuum in the tank. Leave it for half a hour and the air
found its way back in again and all was well... until the next time...

Nothing to do with the engine heating up - more to do with 'using up
petrol' from the tank...

Just had a look at the filler cap on my '64 Traveller (looks like the
original cap) and it does have a venting arrnagement biult into the cap.
There are two small holes 'inside' the sealing ring - which seem to vent
to another larger hole 'outside' the sealing ring. If your replacement
cap doesn't have vents then this could be the answer....

Now if somebody could just tell me where the rattle's coming from
'somewhere in the region of the steering column' then I'd be a very
happy bunny !<g>

Good luck
Adrian

That will either be the bushes in the steering column.

The rack needs adjustment on the pinion.

The bush at the other end needs replacing.


r

HI Rob

Rob. wrote:

Thanks for the reply...

I have a set of the felt bushes for the steering column - guess that's
the first / easiest thing to try.....

Now where did I put that box of 'round tuits' <g>

Thanks
Adrian

Adrian wrote:


I could most likely sent you some.

Its taken me over 6 months to pull the motor on the MG, just to
lubricate the spigot bush in the flywheel, couldn't drive the thing  as
it would not allow the gearbox input shaft to disengage, hence couldn't
change gear.

That's bloody modern mechanics for you, didn't use any lubricant on the
spigot after a gearbox rebuild. (Modern cars usually have a ball
bearings in the flywheel.) Fully trained on VW Audi Landrover Volvo
Jaguar, but lost the basics.

So I now have a spare tuit.

r

Hi Rob

Rob. wrote:

I had a box-full... but now I can't remember where I put them <g>

Thanks for the offer - anyway....

Trouble with the Traveller is it's now our only car - so somewhat
disinclined to do anything that might result in her being off the road.

It's the tourist season out here (such as it is since the suspension of
the Swansea-Cork ferry service - www.bringbacktheswanseacorkferry.com)
and so I'm out & about at the open-air markets every weekend, and a
couple of big week-long exhibitions coming up also - any 'serious'
maintenance jobs will have to wait until September - by which time I'll

What fun!

Adrian - West Cork, Ireland

Rob. wrote:

You might find simple lubrication insufficient.
The old style (1950-60s) spigot bearings were supposed to be left
immersed in oil for 24 hours before fitting, because they were slightly
porous and absorbed enough oil over that period of time for them to be
lubricated for life - or at least for the life of the clutch when the
bearing could be renewed as a matter of course at the same time.

I don't know if the modern ones are made of the same stuff, but if they
are, just squirting oil on it won't be enough and it will eventually
grip the input shaft again.

Jim

Jim Warren wrote:

It was actually replaced about 6 years a go and lubed up then, when the
engine was rebuilt. (They are or were sintered bronze, as in the rear of
the Lucas generators.)

What happened to the gearbox was the input shaft and cluster knocked
teeth off, so I replaced the parts plus installed better parts of an old
box as well, went through the overdrive did modifications so it worked
better.

Now my son helped assemble and replace the engine/gearbox as a unit.
Hence the problem forgetting the grease on both the spline and the
spigot.(new input shaft)

Hint - with the sintered bronze bushes, especially in the generators,
before assembly you can pressure oil them. (soaking takes too long
unless you have spares lying around)

Place the bush on your thumb, fill with oil, place your index finger on
top and squeeze. This forces the oil through the bush, you can visually
see it come through.  Job done.

r

Rob wrote:

Thanks for the tip.  Saved in case needed.

Jim

Jim Warren wrote:


Not as far as I can see from the pictures in Ray Newell's excellent
"Original Morris Minor" book, but those were the days when petrol was
proper petrol, not the present benzene-ring rubbish we now get.  Midgets
certainly had a heat shield.


The same book shows a saloon with its petrol cap hanging on its chain,
and it clearly has two vent holes on the inside.  I've only once come
across a car which was trying to evacuate its tank, and there was a
distinct "whoosh" when I opened the filler cap.  Certainly worth
checking, though I'd have expected it to show some signs of petrol
starvation before its failure to re-start.


--
Kevin Poole
****Use current date to reply (e.g. jul2008@mainbeam.co.uk)****

It's usually possible to cut them - prise open the terminal, remove and
remove the 'hook' that goes down the middle. Cut to length, insert the
hook and carefully crimp back the connector.

--
*How many roads must a man travel down before he admits he is lost? *

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Thanks for the thought, but I had already fitted the replacements by the
time I read this.

Jim

Depends on the type. Some used to have screw-in connectors which were a
doddle to change. Unscrew, cut lead, screw back.

Steve Firth wrote:

Weren't they the leads with the copper wire core?  I've not seen any of
that type for years.

Jim

Yes, those were the ones.