At what point is a vehicle a vehicle?

But their assumption seems to be that the owner is exporting it personally, and can thus (subject to being run over by a tram on the way to the port) give such a promise. After a long series of letters to them in 2004, they agreed to alter their wording to those you quote, but still, I believe, tell you if you ring up to ask, to hand parts 1-10 to any non-UK keeper, while the form says 1-8 must be returned to them on sale. You are still signing that something will happen over which you have no control once the car is driven off or loaded onto the transporter. So you don't actually sign an untruth on a post2005-ish form, just something that may or may not be true. Meanwhile, poor Johnny Foreigner gets his "new" car with either no documents at all, or, at best, half a V5C showing it's still registered to John Bull in the UK.

That last one was just me taking the piss. Yes, right, its on the form.

So when is it possible for ME to SORN it on MY behalf then? Because as far as this thread seems to be concerned, I'm liable for the penalties as soon as its 'my' car. But we dont *know* the date it became/becomes 'my' car, because we cant ascertain what conditions need to be met to change ownership. I've contracted to buy a car on one day, paid a deposit on another day, became aware of a particular vehicle being the one we're working from on yet another day, paid and will pay further installments on yet other days, and will owe a final payment on a different date on which I'll collect it. Which one of those, if any, is the date I 'bought' the car?

If the date that is arbitrarily drawn from the hat as being the day it changed hands is a day prior to today, then the DVLA have made me liable for an offence without any method of *not* committing it - the SORN I've done we now reckon is not 'my' SORN, but if the car is now mine then I'm liable for not letting them know I still want to SORN it!

_ gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:

When it's registered in your name.

When you open the envelope, and remove the V5C in your name, just go online within the next week or three, and SORN it then.

Charles, have you always been a sanctimonious retard, or do you make a special exception here? Now, how can I put this nicely for you? How about "shut the f*ck up you top-posting d*****ad"?

Yes, thanks for asking. My home is also built to comply with current earthquake regulations.

The V11 that DVLA send out as a reminder has a box on it "If you want to declare that the vehicle is off the road, put an X in this box" So it isn't a SORN Form, but a form that includes the SORN option. All the guidance on the form encourages you to do a SORN online, but they do admit that you can take the form to a Post Office that issues Road Tax or post the form to an address (which is a department in the Local Authority and not the DVLA).

On the back of the V11, it is quite specific "You cannot transfer a SORN". Logically this makes sense - if a vehicle is taxed and the tax disc is transferred with the car, then the fact that it is taxed is obvious, and only taxed cars can be used on public roads[1]. As there is no equivalent marker put on a car (or a carrier bag containing a car) there is no physical evidence that a SORN is in place; and a SORN is a personal promise by the registered keeper to not put the vehicle on a public road, so each new keeper needs to make their own promise. Whether this is widely known is debatable, but it can be arrived at by logic.

Jim

[1] I know that there are specific exceptions in the legislation, but I didn't want to complicate the scenario.