car registration

The message from Adrian contains these words:

"A TV campaign broadcast between 12-29 June [2005 presumably] encouraged all vehicle keepers who have not received the new Registration Certificate to send their old-style V5 Registration Document to DVLA, Swansea, SA99 1BA, with a with a covering letter. This includes keepers whose vehicles are off road being renovated, or exempt from car tax for another reason. Keepers of old or classic vehicles who are concerned that they might lose information on their car's history may request the return of the old style V5 in the covering letter."

I don't recall any such TV campaign, at least not one that covered pre-sorn vehicles.

"You only need to declare SORN for a vehicle that had a tax in force on or after 31 January 1998. There is no charge for declaring SORN."

Roger ( snipped-for-privacy@nospam.zetnet.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

No, nor do I.

They also managed to drop a couple of mine which WERE actively SORNed/taxed...

But there was enough leafletage with the V5Cs that DID come through, and enough mention on here and other corners of the 'net.

If the car was not taxed since before SORN was a requirement (1998?) then there is no need to SORN the car. You can get a V5C from by going to your DVLA office with the old V5. They'll take it from you and send you a new one.

If you don't "upgrade" to a V5C, then the DVLA won't just assume the car no longer exists and delete the records. On their records you are still held as the current owner, it is just that the document no longer becomes valid so you cannot sell (etc) the car.

I would however, recommend getting the document changed.

The confusion about the records being deleted probably comes from the last document changeover - when the DVLA computer system was introduced between 1974 and 1984. After 1984, old RF60 logbooks could no longer be exchanged for a "new" V5 and the car had to be re-registered as a "new" (but used) vehicle. The rules changed again in 1991-ish, allowing owners to register their cars if the RF60 was in existance. Any such cars would be reallocated with their original registration, but as non-transferrable. The car would also have to undergo a through inspection to ensure that it was indeed the actual car and not a logbook rebuild!

-- Howard Rose

I remember it!

Last summer I had a letter from the DVLA reminding me that I had not "updated" the V5 on my 1964 Austin Mini. The car has not been taxed since 1990, and therefore does not require SORN, although I bought the car in 2003, so the record activity is fairly recent. I sent them the documents, and requested I could keep the old V5. They sent the V5C and the V5 back (but with large "cancelled" stamps over it).

-- Howard Rose

I sold one a couple of months ago with a V5, no probs...

Ooh, my Herald will be almost that I think! Not intentionally, just that it's a chassis-up rebuild on a replacement chassis!

Willy Eckerslyke (oss108no snipped-for-privacy@bangor.ac.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

Then they're lying, and you can prove it - because ticking that box states you scrapped the car *YOURSELF*. You should easily pass a Vehicle Identity Check, if it comes to that.

Pam Cook (pam snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

Something's just popped into my brain on this...

Why are YOU trying to change the name on the V5? It's the seller's responsibility to send it off, not yours. You just get the "It's now mine" slip.

Ah. So we don't actually /have/ to have on, it's just that it might be a good idea if we are thinking of selling. And cars which haven't been taxed or SORNed won't have had the new one.

So, since I'm not going to be taxing my Herald for another year or so, is it worth me paying good cash for a V5C?

Ian

Thanks. However, I still can't see why I'd want to do this, and it doesn't seem as if I have to ...

Ian

Ian Johnston ( snipped-for-privacy@btinternet.com) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

AIUI, there's likely to be more problems than that. The whole point of the wholesale move to V5Cs is to remove the long-dead stuff from the database.

You shouldn't need to - just write to 'em and tell 'em you haven't had a V5C for it.

The message from Ian Johnston contains these words:

Maybe not, but what if they suddenly announced that they had allowed everyone who needed a V5C ample time to apply for one and henceforth it will cost more than the price of a postage stamp or, worse, you have now been officially stuffed.

Do you have a receipt from the seller signed & dated? If not contact them & ask them to prepare one or prepare one yourself & get them to sign it. Keep it very safe. Then write to the DVLA via registered post, not recorded explaining the situation to them, preferably to the person who sent you the letter. Note that the vehicle is a restoration project, it is not fit to be MOT'd & will not be for some time, tell them that the vehicle will not be SORN as their system does not allow it to be. It will however not be used on the public road at any time & they are free to come inspect it at any time convenient time by prior arrangement. Out the ball back into their court. If you take it to it's ultimate & logical conclusion & they tried to take you to court for none declaring of SORN & or not paying the fine then no magistrate in their right mind would uphold the judgement, if you can prove you have tried to do the correct & proper thing.

I am not a lawyer so all of this could garbage, but it is the way I would proceed.

Alan...

because there is no 'it's now mine slip'..... the previous owner sent the reg. doc. in to change the taxation class, and the DVLA, in it's wisdom, tore the doc. in half and only returned the front page and put red lines thru' the 'new keeper's details' part.....and wrote that they regret they cannot send a new reg. doc. because the changes she was notifying them of, altered the rate of duty payable...and she must first license the vehicle, and get a disc showing the new details...which , as i said is not possible at the moment...and the vehicle has a new keeper...me... which we cannot register..I'm at a loss to know what to do...... pam

If they do that without warning they'll be gubbed by the ombudsman.

Have you painted all your cars green just in case that ever becomes mandatory?

Ian

Ian Johnston ( snipped-for-privacy@btinternet.com) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

I don't think that's a valid analogy, Ian.

What's the big problem with getting V5Cs for those of your fleet where you haven't already had 'em?

I think you'll find you don't have a valid SORN. Unlike a tax disc, the SORN has to be renewed on change of ownership (see the V890 SORN application form). In true DVLA fashion, however, they require immediate notification in one breath and tell you that you can't in the next, because they have looked at the SORN application before the change of ownership has gone through. They also ask you to sign something, under penalty of a £5k fine, that you cannot normally know to be true: on the SORN form you have only three options: I am the registered keeper (which you can't be if you've only bought the car that day); I am submitting the V5/V5C (which you can't, because the previous owner is told to send it off, not to hand it over); or The V5 has already been submitted to register the vehicle in my name (which you have no way of knowing, short of following the seller to the post box).

They go on to add "If you are submitting the Registration Document to register the vehicle in your name...", presumably having forgotten that the buyer doesn't do this any more.

I had a real dust-up with them a few years ago when I refused to sign that I was exporting a vehicle: I wasn't, I was selling it to an Italian who said he was - but what was I supposed to do - follow him to the ferry terminal? They promised to re-write the instructions, which I see they've now done, but I think they've still left them self-contradictory.

Keep writing to the DVLA, and eventually it will reach someone more senior. I was eventually told to send my documents to a named manager to deal with it.

Well, we've already heard of one poster here done for not SORNing a car which didn't need SORNing after it went on a V5C. But basically, if I don't need to do it, why should I?

Ian

Pam Cook (pam snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

Any SORN declaration expires on a change of keeper. You'll need to re-SORN it yourself.

The message from Ian Johnston contains these words:

The DVLA have told all and sundry that V5s have been superceded by V5Cs and it is a very small step for them to then call an end to the replacement process after what is already a lengthy period. Having recently had dealings with Mrs Ombudsman I can confidently predict that she wouldn't want to call that mal administration.

I have yet to be informed that the current paint colours would fail the MOT test.