Changes at DVLA - tell them what you think

Ah, and there blows another....

But surely a milk float of the time was more economical than either?

Probably not, when you consider the pollution caused but the coal fired power stations whilst generating the electricity used to recharge the milk floats batteries.....

Chris Morriss ( snipped-for-privacy@oroboros.demon.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

You mean like most cars designed in the last 3-4 years?

In message , Adrian writes

Really? As far as I know, no cars use a 36V (so-called 42V) battery supply, and although a handful of high-end cars use a CAN bus, I don't think all the instruments, lights and other controls are on it.

Can you tell me what cars use 36V and a CAN bus? No, I thought not.

The message from "Autolycus" contains these words:

For a fair comparison you need to equate diesel with diesel and petrol with petrol and surely both RR and Discovery diesels are 2.5l.

Sit up and beg Fords small, yes, practical only to the eternal optimist. Victors small, hardly, sidevalve since when? 50s Hillmans I can't remember but I am sure the 60s Minx I had was not a sidevalve or particularly small for that matter.

Just for the record what fuel consumption do you think the above cars had?

Problem with a pollution tax is that you would have to tax diesel more heavily than petrol as its products are nastier and (if I have the percentage the right way round) diesel produces 25% more CO2 per volume than petrol.

In the US the manufacturers have bribed politicians into classifying SUVs as "trucks" so that they do not have to comply with emissions requirements for cars. They are (and I'm not talking about MPV versions of saloon cars here) gas guzzlers. That also applies to big heavy prestige cars like Royces, Bentleys, big Mercs, Maybachs, etc.

Obviously there are a lot of classic cars that are none too economical themselves. In general big heavy vehicles with large engines consume more fuel. Advances in engine technology have improved efficiency but not enough to bridge the gap.

Also you can't assume that historic cars necessarily have historic engines. My 1971 and 1979 cars have much more recent engines. Although they still use carburetters I could if I wished fit an engine with multi-point injection and electronic engine management.

We're talking today's energy. The milk float could be powered by wind energy or hydroelectric energy.

There are transmission losses with electrical power, but petrol and diesel have to be transported by road and rail which generates losses and pollution. Power stations are not now located near city centres.

The advantage of electric traction is that power is only used when it is needed and can be regenerated when slowing down or going downhill (not on 1950s milk floats of course).

I entirely agree. Some countries do require insurance stickers on windscreens. We now have MoT reminder stickers so making them official documents wouldn't be a big step.

Also the Police want to have a database for their own law enforcement purposes. The cost of providing insurance and MoT stickers would be borne by the insurance companies and testing centres and no doubt passed on to customers. We already have a situation where data are passed back to the DVLA and/or Police computers for cross-checking. You could incorporate RFID technology to make the certificates scannable from the roadside. You could do that with photocard driving licences too. Of course we'd get all the "big brother" protests.

So the savings come from not having to collect revenue directly from motorists or issue tax discs, and as already mentioned fuel duty is much harder to avoid if you want to use your car.

My main objection to road pricing is that much of the money raised goes into providing the infrastructure necessary to implement it and to pay the cost of financing it rather than on providing better roads. No doubt it would be done by some sort of PFI.

Chris Morriss ( snipped-for-privacy@oroboros.demon.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

You'd be surprised.

Virtually everything launched this century uses multiplexed wiring.

I know the PSA range best - and multiplexing was introduced at the launch of the Berlingo van in the late 90s, with everything released since the facelifts on the Saxo and Xsara being MUXed. Some late XMs ('99 or so, though, thankfully, not RHD) were multiplexed, too - and virtually every electronic part is different. I've seen them on the parts computer, although the 'fiche copy I have is too early.

PSA were fairly late to the game, though. IIRC, all P38 (the 90s shape) RangeRovers are multiplexed - with amazing amounts of problems from the body control computers. Just look at the fun'n'games required to fit towbars to many late-90s cars. Software upgrades for the wiring? Suits you, Sir. Same for many Transit-sized vans. Some recent cars don't even have separate bulbs or filaments for brake and tail lights - they just pulse the filament differently, causing the eye to think it's brighter.

You want to fit a CD changer to anything recent? Time to get the dealer to reprogram the car to recognise it. It's the only feasible way to get many of the modern "must-have" features to work without tons of relays and wiring.

Everything is on the multiplexing. IIRC, the wiring loom in a late pre- multiplexed exec car is somewhere around 150kg.

IIRC, BMW (and probably others) use a higher voltage than 12v for much of the electrics. It's a 12v battery, but the voltage is stepped up.

Are we, this all started when someone started to compare classic cars with modern one, and considering that the person Dave was replying to was talking about cars from the 1950 / 60's....

What has that got to do with things, pollution doesn't stop at the City limits. Also, what is currently used to generate electricity, not very much is generated by wind or wave etc. power ATM.

You are making a wonderful case for more use of electric traction, ban the private car and bring back the trolley bus !

Richard Porter ( snipped-for-privacy@address.uk.invalid) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

It'd be nice if they got their arses in gear and actually got a computerised central record of MOTs... It's not *that* difficult...

Not so, they don't have to comply with 'car' emission requirements because they are over a certain weight and the USA taxation laws classes them as (commercial) trucks. Due to politicians not wanting to affect distribution costs (and thus cause a rise in inflation) they didn't include commercial vehicles in the emission requirements (then) being introduced for cars, the politicians made the loop-hole for their own domestic political reasons, all the car companies did was to decide to say thank you whilst jumping through the loop-hole - not to mention the customer doing so as well.

They are (and I'm not talking about MPV versions

We were talking about SUV's, which are not all gas guzzlers, but remember before condemning gas guzzlers think how many classic cars are too....

That is crap, and you know it. Are you seriously suggesting that engine design has stagnated in the last 20 to 30 years or so, that is what you are implying.

And you point is - other than to contradict your comment (above) about modern engine design !

One of the effects of ever more stringent emissions legislation in recent times is that the technology improvements in modern engines that should show significant improvemnts in efficiency don't due to the detuning and contradictory limitations required to meet the emissions targets. There are many examples where engine performance in one way or another appears to have stagnated, or even gone backwards appart from the emissions levels.

Emission levels have almost universally dropped, performance (over all) and MPG has almost universally go up - consider this, a 1960's Vauxhall Viva (base model) would have struggled to reach 70mph, it's direct 2004 equivalent model (Nova / Corsa) does a 0 - 70 in under 60 seconds, produces less harmful emissions, and returns more miles per gallon.

News to me. Could you give some examples - apart from the ignition system?

This was true in the early days of emissions control, but not anymore. Many fully compliant production engines have specific power outputs that were unheard of some years ago.

Dave Plowman (News) ( snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

As I said - IIRC.

I'm fairly sure I heard that the E65 7s (and, presumably all the newer models) use 42v or something for much of the body control electronics.