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- Geoff Mackenzie
October 29, 2010, 11:06 am
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off the plate - you know, collecting brochures, reading road tests,
convincing myself that it's a very practical daily driver and all that crap.
I've settled on a Marcos, with the Ford V6 engine.
Reasons? It's probably the only 60's and 70's sports car I've never owned,
and I always wanted one. I remember meeting Jem Marsh at press day at the
London Motor Show, and asked him how he could sell the then Volvo 1800
engined car against the E-Type at about the same price; he made some
comment about it being even more difficult for a dolly to climb out without
showing her knickers. I also asked about the rumoured 3-litre Ford engined
one, which was not on display, and he said he'd sent his son out in the
prototype down to the south of France about three months ago, and since he'd
not heard from him he presumed it was doing OK. Laid back? He was
practically horizontal....
Right, now to practicalities. Has to be an early one, with the marine
plywood hull, not the later ones which had a chassis of metal. I'd prefer
the early 1800 dashboard rather than the plank of wood later fitted, but I
doubt if that combination existed. No matter - it was always a "bitsa" so
originality doesn't even come into the equation. And they are seriously
cheap - compared with other sporting cars of that era, they go for pennies
(apart from the very early 1800 types which are doing very well in club
racing- something to do with FIA accreditation, which interests me not at
all). I don't think there will be a problem buying one; there are quite a
few in the owners' club magazine, and I'm not particularly worried about
condition as I would envisage a ground-up restoration.
It seems to me to be sensible to consider the drive train first. I am aware
that there were several variants of the Ford V6 - which is considered
"best"? I recall that the 3.0 litre as fitted to the Capri (the most awful
car I had the misfortune to drive) was not as well regarded as the 2.8
version which I think followed. Essex versus Cologne, or Dortmund or
somewhere. And it must have a five speed gearbox. May I have your advice,
please?
Geoff MacK
Re: Marcos Ford
Looks like that change happened at the same time as the V6...
http://www.rory.uk.com/history_of_marcos_cars.htm
Looks like the Capri changed from 3.0 Essex to 2.8i Cologne in '81 - and
still had a four-speed for a little while before the five-speed came in.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Capri#2.8_Injection_models
Looks like you're either going wood, 3.0 or _totally_ ignoring
originality...
Re: Marcos Ford
Not sure about when the marine ply hull went out, but certainly the
prototype 3-litre used it. And yes, I am totally ignoring originality; I
don't think it applies when the original manufacturer used any bits which
were laying around his garage!
Seriously, though, I think Jem would approve - trying to build up a car to
my own specifications, rather than pickling in aspic a fifty year old
design.
Geoff MacK
Re: Marcos Ford
With the 3.0L engine, make sure you get the Granada version of the lump,
not the Zodiac one. Neither is wonderful and they both have heating and
gasket issues, but the later engine is more robust, more powerful and
revs rather less unenthusastically (this from experience with 'em in
Scimitars, not Marcii). In practice, I suspect most of 'em that started
with the Zodiac lump will have had them replaced with the later version
anyway, but it's worth checking.
There are obvious visual cues to distinguish between the two, but at the
moment I'm damned if I can remember them..
Re: Marcos Ford
The 2.8 was a very different design from the 3 litre - not a development,
as it were. Think they are all fuel injected. Also think by that time they
were 5 speed.
Only Capri I've driven was a 2 litre auto I bought at auction for 175 quid
- to tide me over while my main car was waiting for bits. I quite liked it
- thought it rather better to drive than an MGB.
--
*I must always remember that I'm unique, just like everyone else. *
Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
Re: Marcos Ford
From what little I know they were completely different, not one developed
from the other.
I had a Capri 3 litre for a week as a company car while my Giulietta was
being repaired after a back end shunt. Pure Bodie & Doyle. Huge tyre
squeal when pulling out when any trace of lock on. Couldn't help thinking
that my E-Type with more than 100bhp more didn't do that - just put the
power down without fuss. Wondered if that was designed to appeal to Essex
Man? But a 2 litre at 175 has to be a good buy - I suppose that my dislike
was based on new car prices (ah, the days of company cars...).
Thinking of which, one of my contemporaries at that time chose an MGB GT as
his company car - early seventies, I guess? - went out for a ride in it
once, couldn't believe how truly awful it was. And even more OT, in
atonement for my sins in comprehensively rolling and writing off my Alfasud
ti the transport manager gave me an Austin Allegro 1750 GT to tide me
over - pretty much summed up the state of the British motor industry.
Geoff MacK
Re: Marcos Ford
What is it about Alfasuds that like to get rolled or pranged into more
solid objects. I did a test day at Castle Combe some years back and the
Alfa Romeo club had been the previous weekend and the remains of 2 or 3
Alfasuds were still parked around the circuit having run off or rolled.
Re: Marcos Ford
Perhaps because they handle so well, you're travelling quite quickly
when you run out of talent?
(I had a 'Sud Ti for a while. Cracking little car, apart from the tinworm. It
would run rings around my then bosses Mk1 Golf GTi, much to his irritation.)
--
Today is Boomtime, the 10th day of The Aftermath in the YOLD 3176
“I never thought I was wasted, but I probably was.”
Re: Marcos Ford
Plus the combination of excellent handling and relatively little power,
so there's the temptation (plus..) of keeping up travelling speed by
slowing as little as possible for any corner. If said corner has a patch
of oil or unexpectedly tightens, then 'sud (and driver) may become as one
with the scenery.
It's an endemic problem with good- (or at least, predicatbly) handling,
low-powered cars - the temptation to drive 'em like a [deleted] nutter.
2CVs are notably prone to this sort of thing, too, and I suspect not a
few Cit GSs hit things hard for much the same reason as the 'suds.
Re: Marcos Ford
*laugh* I was looking at that as I posted.
Would be a shame to ruin it, though, since I'd want it as a track day car.
I saw one at a sprint at Curborough this year and I'd swear it was held
together by its roll cage.
--
Today is Pungenday, the 11th day of The Aftermath in the YOLD 3176
“I never thought I was wasted, but I probably was.”
Re: (was) Marcos Ford, now AlfaSud
Think I may be able shed some light on this. Never mentioned in
contemporary road tests was the difficulty of equalising the rear brakes;
in moments of stress, like a panic stop from almost any speed, there was a
tendency for one rear wheel to lock up causing the car to flick sideways.
First time I got caught out by this was when travelling - er, rather
rapidly - in the outside lane of the M25 when a car in front pulled out of
the middle lane to overtake without looking in his mirrors and I had to
brake heavily to avoid running into him; the back came out far quicker than
my ability to correct (although in fairness to myself I doubt if there
enough steering lock available for even Stirling Moss to retrieve the
situation) and the result was a somewhat spectacular series of rolls.
Police confirmed from inspection of skid marks that one rear wheel had
locked up. Second time was at about 20mph in the wet when I nearly overshot
the turning I was looking for, braked fairly hard but far from maximum, and
the tail snapped out again fortunately without further upset. Third time
was when I asked the delivery driver who was collecting the car for
servicing to check this specific point - asked him to find a nice straight
bit of the A30 and brake hard from about 70mph; he reckoned he ended up two
fields away.... The important point is that this could not be blamed on one
particular "rogue" car, they happened in three different 'Suds, all bought
brand new and serviced strictly according to schedule by a main dealer.
Suspect a track day might provide ideal conditions to find out about this
problem!
Having said all this, I still rate the AlfaSud ti as one of the best
all-round cars I ever had, the other being a Series 3 Jaguar Sovereign.
Geoff MacK
Re: Marcos Ford
German F*rd, not UK. ISTR it may have been a descendent of the 1.6L
engine?
Shorter stroke, much less torque but more (well, some) ability to rev.
The 2.8L certainly came in carb'd form - lots of Mk.2 Granadas had that
one, as did the SE6b and SE8 Scimitars. In the UK Capris only had the
injected version, but there may have been carb'd LHD ones. What Marcos
used - anyone's guess..
Earlier Mk2. Granadas and the first couple of years of 2.8i Capris had 4-
speed boxes. The Scimitars kept in with the Capri internals in the
Transit casing with the overdrive - again, Marcos may have raided that
parts bin as well.
Re: Marcos Ford
I think the early 2.8 Granada MKII had carbs rather than fuel injection.
I am not sure about the gearbox because the only one I saw at close
quarters was an auto.
However, if you are building a Marcos from pick-and-mix parts, the 2.8i
coupled to the Sierra 5 speed box would be a good choice.
Jim
Re: Marcos Ford
Carburettor or FI was available, depending on what trim you chose, right
through the model's life. There was a 2.8 Ghia and a 2.8i Ghia, for
example, but a GLS was only available as a 2.8i. Manual or Automatic
were both available with either FI or Carburettor, although there were
some restrictions on what trim could be had with what engine/gearbox
combination.The carburettor engine disappeared with the launch of the Mk
III Scorpio-type Granada in 1985. The Capri was 2.8 only ever available
in the UK with FI, although I suspect this wasn't the case in the rest
of Europe, where the 3.0-litre Essex V6 was never available in the
Capri.
--
Regards
Leroy Curtis
Please replace "nospam" with "baram" in my address if you wish to
reply by Email
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