Stag engines

Willy Eckerslyke wrote:


When these things stand for any length of time the valves stick and stay
open. (Rings seem to dry as well,) You could pull the covers off the
cams and check the clearance off the back of the cam. I think off hand 015"

It will not be the timing chains.

The cams do pit which is not a problem. I have never known the valves to
clip. on any of this family of engines.

Make sure that there are no air leaks in the inlet side. Hoses or rubber
caps off.

What happens if you place a few squirts of oil down each cylinder? ( to
seal the rings) and when you remove the plugs to put the oil in check
what colour they've been.

Would say, you may be pulling the heads off - what a bugger! with them
sloping studs - which could also be seized in the head.

The water pump may also be dry and will leak. check the slot in the
block for leaks.


rm

Rob wrote:


That's good to know. Thanks Rob. I was going from a somewhat biased
webpage which claimed that the chains stretch with age and "jump",
though couldn't really see how they could.


Again, that's good news!


The air cleaner was in the back of the car and some of the breather (?)
pipework was hanging loose with at least one elbow missing, so I'm not
at all sure I put it all back on correctly. There could well be an air
leak or two...
Reckon it'd do any harm if I just blanked them all off to see if it'll
start?


Haven't tried that yet.


They're all too new to tell me anything. They're a bit black, suggesting
the engine's been run since they were changed. And they match on both
sides of the engine. Someone's replaced the plugs, the distributor cap
and rotor arm very recently. I don't think the car's been standing for
long if at all. Someone's clearly tried to get it going, given up and
hauled it to the scrapyard - where I found it.
The diaphragms on the Stromberg carbs didn't look too healthy,
indicating that whoever's been there before didn't know all that much
about what they were doing.


I did ponder on that, then decided I'd be better off selling the engine
as-is on eBay with an honest description.
Bodywork is totally shot and it has been officially recorded as scrap,
so is only good for parts, but there's enough there for me to make a
decent profit.


I didn't see any signs of leaks when I looked yesterday.
One bit of bad news is the total lack of any anti-freeze in the coolant,
but it might not have been like that for long enough to cause any
damage, assuming the system was filled when the last person fiddled with it.

Incidentally, is it normal for the power steering pump to be on the same
side as the battery, preventing it from being lifted out?

Throw a nice Rover engine in :-)


--
Pete M - Using the Scouse Side of the Force -
Golf GTi Mk2 (2.0 transplant in progress),
Golf GTi Mk1 (For Sale)
OMF#9

Currently listening to The White Stripes

Yes, the battery is on the same side as the power steering pump!

ken

1974 Slag auto
1976 Dolly Auto
1981 TR7 Manual
2003 Mini Auto
2006 Rover 75 CDTI Auto

Ken Forrest wrote:


Thanks, that had me puzzled. So do you normally have to move the pump to
swap batteries? On this one, there's no way it'd fit past, but perhaps
the engine's dropped a bit on its mounts or something.

Nope, pump unbolts complete with its bracketry and gets tied up beside the
washer bottle to enable battery removal! Better by design.........
Badger.

Pete M wrote:


Hehe! For real irony value, I was half tempted to get the Stag engine
running then fit it into my P6.

Out of interest, how did folk mate the Rover engine to the Triumph
gearbox? Or did they just use the Rover 'box along with the engine?

I doubt the Stag box would handle the torque for long.

--
*To steal ideas from *one* person is plagiarism; from many, research*

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Willy Eckerslyke wrote:


Same way they used a different gearbox in the Dolomite to the Sprint,
They have an adaptor in between for the conversion.

Also the same way they use a 5 speed Toyota box behind a V8.

Also add to what Dave said that box on the Stag/Sprint/2500 is a very
strong box and capible of taking far more power.

..

Stag box is different to the 2500 - looks identical on the outside but has
much heavier bearings to cope with the extra poke from the v8. Stag box can
cope with the power from a standard carb'd rover engine no probs - unless
it's subject to very course use or is already well past its best! 2500 box
won't last 3 weeks behind a rover v8!
Badger.

In article

If this is the case why didn't it get used for other makes in the range?
BL were short of a decent box for bigger engines.

--
*Stable Relationships Are For Horses.

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Usual things on these engines are points, carb diaphragms and sundry air
hoses or air leaks. Before looking for anything more complicated. If the
electronic ignition is ok that's one less thing to worry about.

--
*Some people are only alive because it is illegal to kill.

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:


I had another quick look at the air hoses last night and I'm not
convinced that there's enough wrong to prevent it starting.
I won't have time until the weekend to investigate further, but have
decided to finally buy a compression tester. Then at least I'll know
whether it's worth spending any more time on the engine.


Luckily the original box with instructions for the electronic ignition
kit was in the car - and it included details of how to test it. It had
me worried because there was also a second, identical kit that had
clearly been used, suggesting someone's been having problems with it in
the past. Also, there were too many leads to the coil (about 5), some
with insulation that was well past its best. Removing all of the old
leads and using a live feed from the battery should have eliminated any
trouble there.
The original distributor parts are also in the car, so I could swap it
all back if I have to.

Thanks Dave and everyone for your help, I'll keep you posted.

By all means buy a compression tester.  By going systematically through the
tests in the instruction leaflet, it will tell you a lot about your engine.

But you can do a fairly simple test for no compression without one.  Stick
your thumb over a plug hole in the bank that does work and spin the engine
on the starter.  That will give you a feel for reasonable compression (which
it must be for that bank to work).  Then try each plug hole on the other
bank in turn and see if they feel similar.

Also don't overlook the obvious.  For an engine to run, you only need three
things
1. Fuel and air mixed in the right proportions
2. Compression
3. A decent spark at the right time.

If you work through systematically, you must eventually find what is wrong.
You can assume the fuel and air are reasonable if the float chamber contains
petrol and the piston moves when you try the lifting pin, provided the
diaphragm isn't split.

You are about to try the compression - but it would be unusual if all four
cylinders in the bank were without.  That would suggest the valves are open
at the wrong times, or were jammed open.

So don't make assumptions about the sparks.  Four cylinders run, so use
these as your starting point for checking the firing sequence. You have
tested the electronic ignition, but it is worth checking that the
distributor contact that the rotor arm points at is connected to the
cylinder that is at TDC.  Don't believe any lead numbering, and don't assume
the previous owner knew which cylinder was numbered what.  Shine a torch
down the plug holes to look for the cylinder with the piston at the top, or
feel for it with a bit of washer tubing (Don't use wood or metal to probe!).
Then turn the crank to the next distributor connection for the dead bank
until you are certain that the right positions go to the right plugs.  And
swap the plugs between the good bank and the dead one - you might have four
dud plugs, and if you swap them, the dead bank will move with them.

Happy hunting.
Jim

Jim Warren wrote:

Thanks very much for the useful post Jim. I've printed it off for the
weekend, so won't reply to it all right now.


I'd agree with that assumption if I knew the engine had been running
healthily before. Unfortunately I don't, and as someone's been mucking
about with it I'm a little dubious about the position of the jets. They
look very low compared to the Stroms on my Vitesse. But these are the
type that you can't adjust from below, so hopefully they've been left alone.

Working through it all systematically as you say has to be the key
though. Happily it's all easily accessible.

Willy Eckerslyke wrote:


The adjustments are through the top but you need a special tool to stop
the piston turning whilst turning the allen key through the middle. You
will more than likely tear the diaphragm if you haven't the tool.

Once they have been set usually stay fairly close to being in tune.


Tool is pictured here

http://www.zeni.net/trf/britishws2/91.php?s_wt=1280&s_ht=960

Its the Cat 1 picture.

rm

..

I've got one I hope to never have to use again (as I hope to never have
Strombergs again) - Open to offers...

Somewhere I've even got a NOS diaphragm for a CD150, again, if I ever have a
Stromberg to fit it to, I'll be using an SU instead..

OK, bit of an update...
I ran a compression test on the engine and it seems reasonably healthy.
Most cylinders read between 11 and 12 bar, with just one down at 10 bar.
A drop of oil in the bore pushed the low one up to 14 bar. Same amount
of oil in one of the higher reading cylinders pushed that one up to 13
bar. Didn't bother with oil in the others.
So, while I'm interpreting that as a bit of wear, it shouldn't be
stopping the engine running.

So last night I removed the carbs for a closer look at them. Blimey,
that's an easy job - just one nut to undo and they both lift off
together - nice!
First thing I see is a pool of petrol sitting in the inlet manifold.
There are a couple of dipped areas directly below the carbs mounting
which were quarter of an inch deep in fuel. No wonder it won't start!

I only had time to look in the float chambers and test the float valves.
They were sealing OK when I tried blowing through while holding them
closed. The floats themselves looked grubby but didn't appear to be full
of petrol.

So I suppose I'll have to strip the carbs down and see what's what. I
suspect they've been sitting dry for a few years before someone else and
then I tried to get the engine running.

It's all too easy to go straight for an engine's so called weak spots - of
which the Stag has a few - without checking the basics first. I'll bet
everyone reading this has done something similar.

--
*Rehab is for quitters

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.