To Stag or Not To Stag

Alternatively - Scimitar GTC? There seem to be a few rather nice ones
advertised at the moment. They're the nearest thing to the Stag that
anyone else ever did...

Andy Breen    Director of Space Science Research
        Insitute of Mathematical and Physical Sciences
        University of Wales, Aberystwyth
        Phone 01970 622814/622802, Fax 01970 622826

--
Not speaking for the University of Wales...

Science is like sex: sometimes something useful comes out, but that's
not why we're doing it (Richard Feynman)

<snip>

Give me a Stag, even with blowing head gaskets, any day! Scimitar's
are only good if the body is immaculate and without blemish.

Owning a plastic car does reduce rust problems, but I'd have to Tax
it, and I feel I pay enough to use the roads already.
Also Scimiters have never been on my Cars I want to own list, where as
the Stag always has been as various pop stars who lived near my
childhood home in Surrey would drive through the village in stags
looking seriously cool.

The garage selling the Stag does have Cilla Blacks Mercedes 450SL for
sale which I remember seeing her in as a kid. I wonder if you get a
child seat in back of 450 convertibles?

Apart from the chassis, of course - though most SE8s got galvanised
chassis, IIRC..


It's a lower (flat) rate, though, so not as much as a modern 2L car..


Well, in this game that's the conclusive argument. I've always liked the
old Scimitar and have never really seen the point of the Stag, but that's
me..


<Thinks>. Possibly, for small values of child...

--
Andy Breen ~     Not speaking on behalf of the University of Wales, Aberystwyth
        Feng Shui: an ancient oriental art for extracting
         money from the gullible (Martin Sinclair)

But then there is a whole raft of other problems with the GRP body,
not cheap to get repaired properly if there is anything major wrong.

Accompanied by the sound of a chisel on slate Andrew Robert

I can't abide Triumph Stags, especially not the ones with the original
Triumph (ha) lump in.

I remember my dad had a few in his garage when I was young and they were
spectacularly unreliable even then, and I'm talking about virtually new ones
<18 months old. After the first 4 or 5 of them he refused to have anything
to do with them. The only reasons he had that many were A: he had a liking
for V8s; B: He couldn't believe that they were /all/ that bad, C: He liked
the Triumph 2500 and D: He was a motor trader who specialised in Jags,
Rovers and Triumphs.


A 450 SL is a *much* better car than a Stag, then again a million mile Yugo
45 with a misfire and a weeping head gasket is likely to be more reliable
than a Stag.

There aren't many old British "posh" cars that I wouldn't consider buying,
but a Stag is a definate no-no.

I'd have a Jensen Interceptor if I wanted something funky from the late '60s
/ early '70s and I know /exactly/ how unreliable they are.

--
Pete M - That Scouse Git - OMF#9

W&P Range Rover V8 Turbo
Golf GTi 2.0 (Mk2 - proper one)
Golf GTi Mk1 (For Sale)

Well, all you need to know about *that* is that I quite fancy one and
have been caught bidding on one or the other on fleabay from time to
time...

Celtic Classics (a bit south from here) have a FF....

--
Andy Breen ~     Not speaking on behalf of the University of Wales, Aberystwyth
        Feng Shui: an ancient oriental art for extracting
         money from the gullible (Martin Sinclair)

Accompanied by the sound of a chisel on slate Andrew Robert

I already have use of a '73 Interceptor III Convertible, I'm not insane
enough to buy one just yet, but I've got a bit of an urge for a blue Coupé.

Have to be a 7.2 though.

--
Pete M - That Scouse Git - OMF#9

W&P Range Rover V8 Turbo
Golf GTi 2.0 (Mk2 - proper one)
Golf GTi Mk1 (For Sale)

Only a 6.3, m'fraid..

http://www.celticclassics.co.uk/Jensenff.shtml

--
Andy Breen ~     Speaking for myself, not the University of Wales
        "your suggestion rates at four monkeys for six weeks"
                        (Peter D. Rieden)

Like many such BL cars, present day techniques etc can get round the
design flaws and produce a reasonably reliable vehicle.

--
*i souport publik edekashun.

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Accompanied by the sound of a chisel on slate Dave Plowman
wisdom

True, but unlike stuff like the SD1 that was well designed but badly made,
the Stag was ruined by that terrible Triumph V8 as well as being badly made.

Someone I know spent an absolute fortune in the early '90s restoring a Stag.
No expense spared, all the best bits fitted by the best Stag gurus, engine
rebuilt using all new genuine Triumph parts or the uprated equivalents,
nothing at all was left to chance. This was to be the best Stag in the
world, without exception, and it did look terrific. You could spend all day
looking for a single blemish and you would not have found one. It would have
won any concours event anywhere. Gorgeous looking thing, sounded nice as
well.

30 miles after the full engine rebuild it blew a head gasket. It had the
upgraded radiator and water pump, the engine had been built by respected
professionals at huge cost, the car had been treated with the ultimate in
care and respect and it still popped.

This was after a nigh on £40k nut and bolt restoration using all the best
bits, assembled by the best people.

Triumph couldn't make them reliable, these guys couldn't make 'em reliable,
and they weren't reliable when they were new.

That Triumph V8 is a travesty, underpowered, unreliable and unfit for
purpose.

--
Pete M - That Scouse Git - OMF#9

W&P Range Rover V8 Turbo
Golf GTi 2.0 (Mk2 - proper one)
Golf GTi Mk1 (For Sale)

[ re the Stag engine ]

Sorry but that says far more about the 'grease monkeys' that called
themselves experts than it does the engine, are you seriously
suggesting that these engines were so bad that they would not get to
the dealer [1] never mind out of the show room?! I'm not suggesting
that there was no fault but that the so called experts SHOULD have
detected the fault before building it into a rebuilt engine,
especially as they were being employed (at considerable cost it would
seem) to prevent such an engine failure occurring...

[1] remember that in those days cars were driven from factory to
dealer on trade plates.

Accompanied by the sound of a chisel on slate
words of wisdom

I'm not going to name the experts, as it's a Stag engine, but these guys are
thorough, meticulous and absolutely professional in everything they do. They
repaired the engine free of charge as a goodwill measure even though the
failure was *not* caused by their workmanship.

As for the experts detecting the fault, without crack testing the heads
you'd not have seen it coming. Who crack tests brand new cylinder heads?


I remember in 1976 most of the cars delivered to my dads garage were done by
transporter. I remember vividly two brand new Cortina 2000E "Olympic"s and a
Granada 3000 Ghia S (With Aircon!) being delivered ready for the new "R"
registration so it wasn't unusual for transporters even then.


--
Pete M - That Scouse Git - OMF#9

W&P Range Rover V8 Turbo
Golf GTi 2.0 (Mk2 - proper one)
Golf GTi Mk1 (For Sale)

Hmm, if it really wasn't there fault why not, unless we are really
talking about hot air, pipes and dreams....


Bollocks, they were being employed to re-build the engine, if they
chose not to check and double check everything then that is their
problem not some problem with the drawing board - I would be saying
the same if we were talking about a Chevy big block, the Rover V8, the
Austin 'series' or Ford 'county' engines - all of which have *known*
weaknesses.

As with any car, mud thrown by ignorant people sticks, never mind the
fact that some of is not real mud, I'll tell you something though,
give me a Stag engine over the old Ford V4 or the UK build V6 - now
they did have design problems


If you're being paid - as part of a open cheque book restoration - to
build the best, whilst also using parts that have (presumably) spent
years sitting on a shelf some place for some unknown reason [1],
anyone with a brain!


Whilst I remember cars being delivered on trade plates....

<snip>

Forgot the foot note...
[1] I have come across new 'old stock' OEM parts that had obviously
been put to one side due to manufacturing issues (basically being
faulty) that get forgotten about and then surface years later.

Other thing is NOS body panels - thrown to one side as a poor fit during
manufacture but sold on as spares long after it ceased.

--
*No I haven't stolen it , I'm just a shit driver*

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Hmm. What exactly did they do for this rebuild?


If they supplied the 'new' cylinder heads then they and their supplier
would be liable. However the likelihood is they were exchange units and
should have been properly tested after repair by the supplier.

--
*Some days we are the flies; some days we are the windscreen.*

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

All I can say is that doesn't sound like the car I've owned for the
last 19 years. No special care of the engine, just over 110K on the
clock, still on the original engine and still being used a couple of
times a week - no blown heads - nothing like that.

I think you'll find the Stags that are still on the road nowadays are
pretty reliable - the years have a strong filtering effect :-) And
underpowered? Compared with modern high-performance cars yes, but it's
still feels pretty grunty - especially with all the torque which means
it's easy to use most of the performance - it _feels_ like it has even
more power than it really has, which makes it good fun to drive.
Certainly it has enough power for its handling (grin) - which means
you can have fun at lower speeds.

Mark