Wheel arch lip-only, abraded, Galvafroid & wire-brush or POR-15?

I've 1 rear wheel arch lip - abraded... o Drop car at tyre shop, wrong width tyre fitted o Collect car, pick up gravel, every corner noise of paint abrasion o They fixed it with what seemed to be primer & top-coat

Several years later... o Wheel arch lip paint & primer cracked, flaking off o No scaling, no in-seam scale, no in-seam expansion o Metal is sound, no recessed lands from corrosion o BUT numerous surface-rust pitting :-)

Also... o Small black rust patch had moved up onto the body o Wire brushing gently brings it back to shiny metal o Some small black rust dots (2-3mm) remain o Wire brushing them individually brings shiny metal o Surface is then faintly rough, but shiny & solid

Basically as a result of no paint on the lip there.

Option-1 -- Galvafroid + Galv-Metal-Primer + Topcoat

Q: Do I have to wire brush all pitting & black rust dots?

---- to get all perfectly shiny would take several hours

---- 9.6V Makita & 10mm brush does beat than emery cloth

Q: Is there a micro-brush I can use to get in those pits?

---- engraving tool, but would that just eat such thin metal

Q: Can automotive steel withstand wire brushing ok?

---- I guess so & rust erodes faster than steel

---- steel is non-scaled, but obviously of finite thickness

Option-2 -- POR-15 + Topcoat

Q: Most paint-over-rust things do not work well?

---- Ku-Rust & Hammerite aren't "good but toxic" anymore

---- POR-15 is *supposedly* better, but what rust limit?

Is it just a matter of wire-brush, wire-brush, wire-brush? o Numerous tiny specks - pitting & black flecks o Not using much force on the 9.6V drill/brush - just using speed

Could do with a wire-brush inset via a bearing into a handle. That way it doesn't zing across the (as yet) undamaged paint :-)

Objective - wheel arch lip & that body bit ok for 18 months. o Car has light use -- 2x 15 mile trips once a week o Wheel arch clean -- no debris, cleaned after every snow

Googled lots on POR-15 & Galvafroid.

POR-15 comments seem to lack saying the risks o I suspect it prevents future welding if ever the need? o Real rust will obviously continue to perforation?

---- chemicals only penetrate a tiny distance

---- or is rust-pitting & black-rust tinging shallow enough?

Galvafroid is electrochemical, cold zinc galvanising o I'm sure this must require really new shiny steel o Even faint black smudges are not steel so not a zinc base?

I'm avoiding just hammeriting the lip, I don't trust that stuff. Rust is never beaten, but slowing at this stage should be possible.

Anything else to consider?

Reply to
Dorothy Bradbury
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get yourself a miniature sand blast gun, use that, then wash off with panel cleaner, then dry, then use a zinc rich primer ( I use the zinc primer that screwfix sell in aerosols) then the normal fill, prime paint etc.

You will be amazed at the difference that the sand blast makes, it removes all the junk from all those pits, the rust doesn't reappear ( not from the pits, anyway !)

mrcheerful

Reply to
mrcheerful

No compressor (could hire), no min spray gun (cheap £13). Main problem is I've never used one, nervous of distorting metal etc. I might end up showering the body whilst "learning", making more work.

Might be where I need a body shop to media-blast/prime.

Ok, so far I'm at an intermediate stage... o In reach -- mostly shiny metal, just black rust smudge & pitting left o Overnight -- quick Ku-Rust to neutralise & thin Galvafroid

I assume non-porous and will protect overnight, a few days?

Seems 2 practical choices... o DIY -- Wire brush 1" at a time (12mm wide) until as clean as possible

---- Metal-Ready (like POR-15, spray) + Epoxy primer + scuff it + paint o Shop -- They media-blast/prime -- most of the way there

---- I paint, cutting compound etc

Anyone ever tried ICI Epoxy Rust Paints? o Bar Rust 235 -- USA name, can't find it in the UK yet o Merely requires "Tight Rust" -- I guess mine is within that name

Makes me wonder what POR-15 really is - rust-killing-epoxy?

I dislike POR-15 removal difficulty - Metal-Ready at least offers that.

How did people ever restore old alfasuds... slowly?

Reply to
Dorothy Bradbury

Problem is that it's very hard to reach into the tiny pits with a wire brush. Sure, it will get the higher surface nice and shiny, but in the pits there will still be most of whatever is there now.

Mike.

Reply to
Mike

True, unfortunately :-) ... I'm going to try the following.

Preparation... o 3M XT (Purple) Clean & Strip Disc o Works a little better (not much) than a wire brush re pits o Will not get to Sa 2.5 or even Sa 2 (which blasting can do)

Rust conversion... o Phosphoric acid (KuRust) aimed at the pits o 3M XT (Purple) Clean & Strip Disc to remove acid from higher surface

Reason: o High zinc coatings *only* electrochemically active against bare metal

---- surface corrosion can occur, but zinc sacrified as long as within 2-3mm

---- some say 5mm but I think that only applies to real hot dip galv o High zinc coatings inactive over anything - become a *passive* paint

---- so zinc paint over ku-rust prevents zinc acting electrochemically

High zinc coating... o Galvafroid (inorganic base) or a high zinc epoxy primer (organic base)

Reason: o Inorganic carried zinc = really Sa 2.5 cleanliness (white metal blast)

---- Fosroc Galvafroid is solvent, inorganic

---- Fosroc say wirebrush & emery on the tin, but that is not even Sa 2

---- push Fosroc and they say good enough for HDG, meaning Sa 2.5 o Organic carried zinc = really Sa 2, can get away with perfect wirebrush/3M

---- Zinga is in this category, it's borderline re perfect wirebrush/3M o Zinc > 80% is required for electrochemical action o Zinc can not act electrochemically over phosphoric etc I'm almost certain o Bondaprimer is LOW zinc (so not electrochem) & alkyd based

Galvanising primer... o Binds to zinc, base for cellulose, cellulose & zinc saponify (soap)

Cellulose topcoat... o Binds to the galvanising primer, you, the floor, the cat etc

3M say 3M-Blue disc (RS) == 3M-Purple disc in this use, just shorter life.

Looking carefully through bridge to pipeline protection... o Prep -- Sa 2 blast OR perfect wire-brush to below 33%/inch staining o Prime1 -- 80%+ zinc primer -- eg, galvafroid on BARE metal o Prime2 -- Zinc loaded epoxy -- organic zinc carrier re more surface tolerant o Tough topcoat

I can get to no staining, shiny bare metal, shallow pitting shiny.

The problem is of course any deep pitting :-) o Anything but a white-metal Sa 2.5 blast doesn't remove it o One rust molecule / dark rust track thro metal is perforation if not visually o Rust on other side is not stopped by POR-15 (indeed would undermine it) o Rust on other size is not stopped by Zinc - it is free to spread

So even a Sa 2.5 blast doesn't fix the problem if pitting has travelled.

Rust in a pit surrounded by Zinc on bare metal is interesting. o You can scratch a Zinc-on-metal surface & it will surface corrode

---- but the sacrificial Zinc & electro chemical action slows/stops it

---- until of course the Zinc runs out whereupon it spreads o A pit surrounded by Zinc-on-metal still has electrochemical action

---- however the pit will probably still migrate thro to the other side

So a case of slowing, but not stopping.

Area is out of sight, two 3" long 2-5mm width of a ~12mm lip. So aesthetics do not matter.

The above is better than it had before. Anything but zinc on bare metal seems pointless vs electrochemical. Then in Feb get a 'shop to recirculating micro-blast prep & re-galvafroid.

Any thoughts?

Reply to
Dorothy Bradbury

Sorry re duplicate post - Outlook.

o Hired a recirculating mini-bead blaster o Makes quite a difference - even the tiny pin-pricks gone

Only had enough time to do 3 of the 4 little bits, but ok to 2006.

Thanks for all the help.

Reply to
Dorothy Bradbury

told you!!!

mrcheerful

Reply to
mrcheerful

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