327 engine oil lube question

I am taking my 63 SB in for service on Mon. I am trying to deal with the ongoing smoke out of tailpipes under acceleration when leaving a standing
start, with 1500 mi. on complete re-bore and re-build. Per the machine shops analysis that this is un-burnt fuel, and not un-seated rings, I am having the timing advanced from 4 deg. btdc to 8 deg. as they recommended. If the rings need more friction to help seat would 10-30wt. or 20wt.oil provide less lubrication at the cylinder walls( in 55 deg. weather) than straight 30wt.? If the timing adv. doesn't improve or eliminate problem, will have them do a leak-down test on each hole and see if there is a problem there. Thanx- lib
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lib wrote:

that it didn't reach minimum oil consumption until nearly 20K miles.
Today's cylinder honing yields a better result but a 40 year-old engine may have pretty tough cylinder walls.
I'd avoid synthetic oil but wouldn't look for instant results.
Remember that either a leak-down or differential-pressure compression test must be done before the piston completes the compression stroke.
--
pj

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smoke colors black = fuel gray = oil white= coolant or tranny fluid
lib wrote:

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leakdown test would show ring leakage, test okay and it's the valve seals. No new info than you got last time, then we all assumed oil smoke; blue smoke on acceleration the valve seals, on deceleration and at idle (high vacuum conditions) the rings. Oil really can't come from anywhere else. Did you inspect the spark plugs as we advised last time? Over some miles the plugs will show oil deposits hinting at which cylinder(s) are the problem. If it's black smoke all the plugs will be sooty black and the carb is the problem. Again I'd take it back to the shop that did the work and say FIX IT -- if it's bad smoke that is I've had engines take 15-20K miles to fully break in. I also had an engine leave thick smoke trails on acceleration just after sitting all night and just light smoke puffs once it's driven a few minutes, the perfect example of leaking valve seals (and the two offending cylinder's spark plugs would foul after 2-3K miles). Your car should be an easy diagnostic for a pro shop.
Butcher '96 LT-4 CE
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with just "1500 mi. on complete re-bore and re-build". whoever done the job, needs to honor their work...
my2
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'Key wrote:

Sooo the person that assembled it and the machine shop will probably bat him back and forth. Like we have said a couple times, it could of been the machine work OR the assembly.
A teardown would be the only way to conclusively know. A leakdown test will only point to a problem, not what is causing the problem.. ie cracked rings or gaps aligned or the thin oil support rings left out (builder), or bad or wrong sized bores (machine shop)....
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Ric Seyler
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either way ya look at it, he has a problem and probably won't like the sulution...
my2
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Snip

I don't feel your timing change will help and if the carb setup does anything much I'd be surprised but it sure can't hurt to have it setup on a flow bench. Remember that today's fuel is going to have some effect on how well your carburetor can be tuned just due to the age of its design. One thing I noticed on my '64 is the heavy soot that is left in the carbon channels in the manifold and the choke tube system. Although that shouldn't affect the way the carburetor works it tells me it is reacting to the older design different that it use to with the fuel of the sixties.
Straight 20 weight non detergent and work it, don't beat it, just give the rings enough drive time that they have a chance to conform to the cylinders finish.
During our last club outing I followed a '77 that has a total rebuild on the stock block without a rebore, also a '62 that was bored at rebuild and both put out a puff of smoke, black, when shifted and hard acceleration. Nothing major so I ask one of them if my '64 did that as I couldn't see it and they said, yes, but very slight. My oil usage for 1,000 miles doesn't show up on the stick, just a drip on the floor after driving it. A Z06 did about the same thing but I expect that from any manual transmission equipped vehicle even the newer designs and also the smaller engines.

the pistons were replaced. My guess would be a hone job to break the glaze and give the rings some bite to seat them.
Snip

from where it is now. He may need to see Judge Judy.
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Thanx once again for the feedback. Yes, the block was bored 30 over with new pistons, rings, cam, etc. The rods and crank were were examined, cleaned, polished, etc. and re- used. The block/ lower end was re-assembled by my guy, the heads were re-built by the machine shop. My guy said the machine shop informed him that using a quart+ of oil in first 1000 mi. is to be expected and acceptable to them. I find that statement a bit curious at best. Oh well, the search continues- lib

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One thing that happens to the old Carter carbs is wear to the base where the main butterflies are. The holes in the base, as well as the shaft, wear and cause a mixture problem. They have a constant pressure from the return spring and due to that there is wear. On my '63 with a 3471S? AFB it was enough to cause a 1000 rpm change at idle. I could wiggle the shaft and cause the speed to change and it would also change when blipping the throttle. New shafts were available but not the baseplate so I machined and re-bushed the holes and it made a BIG difference in idle and constant throttle running. If the carb rebuilder has any WCFB bases laying around you might try changing it to see if it makes any difference. Good luck.
PDDeen
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lib wrote:

Acceptable to "Them":.... That's bunk also.
Tough situation, man. See how the carb job works. <crosses fingers> And the butterfly shaft/baseplate wear that PDD said is a common thing on old carbs, Carters, Rochesters and Holleys. And some overlook this.

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lib wrote:

But you are really reaching. The oil isn't going to help.
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Update; The car was put on a smog machine that determined that the un-burnt fuel emissions are too high (approx. 7% now, should be approx. 3%) even after setting timing to 8 deg. It didn't show any signs of leak-down in any cylinders and the plugs were still a shade of brown. There is no oil or shine on any of them. I pulled the carb tonite and am taking it to a seasoned specialist (old fart) who has a flow bench. He asked me to bring all the info about the cam, vacuum, etc. that I have available and he'll see what he can do to make it right. If the old WCFB is toast, then I'll be seeking the correct replacement for it. Stay tuned for the next riveting installment of this search for the truth!- lib

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Can't believe anyone could toast a WCFB, kits are still available and they are a snap to setup. They are also easy to screw up if you don't pay attention and have less than average mechanical ability. Does your information have any reference to what percent of un-burnt fuel is appropriate for a '63 carburetor engine? My off hand guess is that it's not the problem.
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Hey Dad, The gentleman who re-timed it also does smog tests. He hooked it up to his analyzer, did the readings, before and after he re-set timing and showed no change. He said that in his estimation that it should be closer to 3%. He said that perhaps gasses were being trapped in the mufflers and expelled under acceleration. I respect your opinion/ best guess about this not being the root of the problem. I have my own doubts, but am hoping we are both guessing wrong. I just returned from dropping off the carb. at the shop. The gentleman there did a quick look-over and said he was very sure that the carb is serviceable, and not toast. I gave him all the info he requested and was pleased that the metal tag was still on the body. Depending on what parts may need to be replaced, he said some parts for a WCFB are more difficult to locate. He had a reasonably clean, but cluttered,shop full of carbs. in different stages of repair. He appeared to be interested in working on it so we will see how it all plays out- lib

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lib wrote:

It really doesn't explain your excessive oil consumption though......
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