DAWN, clean to a fault.

I wish you would make up your mind. I said it MAY leave a residue not that it does.

I wish you would make up your mind, do you think it removes wax, or do you think it doesn't remove wax from an automotive finish?

Bull. I suggest you learn what a salt is.

I was thinking it was to adjust the pH?

If you want a more in depth answer. A salt, in chemistry, is any ionic compound composed of cations (positively charged ions) and anions (negative ions) so that the product is neutral (without a net charge). These component ions can be inorganic (Cl-) as well as organic (CH3COO-) and monoatomic ions(F-) as well as polyatomic ions (SO42-); they are formed when acids and bases react.

There are several varieties of salts: Normal salts are those that do not contain a hydroxide ion (OH-) or a hydrogen ion (H+). Salts that contain a hydroxide ion are basic salts and salts that contain a hydrogen ion are acid salts. Impure salts is a name for salts which have lost their saltiness, and can also refer to natrons. Zwitterions are salts that contain an anionic center and a cationic center in the same molecule; examples include amino acids, many metabolites, peptides and proteins.

When salts are dissolved in water, they are called electrolytes, and are able to conduct electricity, a property that is shared with molten salts. Mixtures of many different ions in solution-like in the cytoplasm of cells, in blood, urine, plant saps and mineral waters- usually do not form defined salts after evaporation of the water. Therefore, their salt content is given for the respective ions.

It causes corrosion for sure, but I doubt it's considered corrosive by the chemicals industry when labelling things (or compiling MSDS). E.g. I don't think water tankers have to display a 'Corrosive Liquid' plate like many of those tankers you see driving down the road.

Heh - nice!

That would've been me. I would try it myself, but like I said, we don't get Dawn over here.

Not really imo. As I've stated all along, I see it as a potential issue only if some detergent ends up in an inaccessible area such as a frame rail/windscreen surround etc, where it doesn't get rinsed out. So it could sit there at least until the car is rinsed after the next wash, at which time the same thing may happen again, compounding the problem. Or it may get rinsed out - who knows? So I'd say check them after 3 days, but let the experiment run for a few weeks seeing as you've gone to the trouble of setting it up.

I can put them up on my webspace if you want to email them to me.

To be fair I don't think Andy's said anything about the corrosion aspect - I think I'm the only one with that particular concern.

Ignoring all the side-tracking typical of a usenet debate, Andy's main point is that Dawn strips wax, & that seems to be backed-up by the links posted. Therefore it's not a good idea to use it regularly, possibly unless you always dry with a chamois, which may or may not remove just as much wax. Maybe.

That'll be the one you filled with battery acid, yes? ;-)

Nice bit of calculating there, but completely irrelevant. The issue is when some detergent finds it's way into an enclosed area during washing & doesn't get rinsed out. So it could potentially sit there until it evaporates, or could be compounded everytime you wash the car, or could get rinsed out during the next wash. Lots of possibilities.

Lots of bare metal everywhere - inside the door skins for example.

No, Dad said all he uses to wash his cars is Dawn. Andy said that was a bad idea as it would take off the wax. Dad said that was an old wives tail etc etc. Then I said I wouldn't use dishwasher detergents as they generally contain salt meaning they may increase corrosion, so why risk it when there are plenty of other options. It all spiralled from there.

How dare you! I said the car was living in Wales, not me!

Well it was quite high up on a mountain, but I think the major constituent of air in Wales is water. And wool.

There certainly is once they start gritting the roads. Hence whilst some of my motorbikes get used during winter, the 'good' one stays firmly tucked up in the garage (as will the 'vette when it's finished).

thanks. Now with all these posts, I forgot what you said was the problem washing with Dawn? Can you remind me ? thanks again.

It turns your Corvette into a Skoda & makes you sterile. Probably.

Inotherwords, don't take your position on Dawn serious ?? Ok, I won't.

Yea, I was referring to the scientific community. No, there isn't one of those "burning hand" stickers on the Abita truck :-)

The basic premise is that it would take a long time. Even soapy solution that gets trapped is a very diluted solution, and it is doubtful that the trapped soapy water will react much differently that simply trapped water. No real numbers, but a wild shot or say it rusts through in ten years. Maybe with water only it rusts through in ten years and two months. With regular car soap in ten years and 1 month. I think the difference in effects is really very little.

Actually, no. They are painted by the vendor of those pieces prior to shipping to Corvette for assembly, even if the vendor was the Chevrolet mill. Once installed in the door panel, they get coated by overspray in the painting process. Not as much now with the robots, but more than you think. The inside and outside of a door gets painted, so a lot of overspray goes through the inner panel holes to coat the inner steer structure.

I can't remember where the links are to assembly line pictures, but I'll post them for you later.

All I remembered was Wales in the conversation.

You know that stuff stays on the roads and shoulders for months. The road isn't clean once the temperatures turn warm. So the damage from Dawn (if any) is a relative thing.

Snip

Never denied that it removed wax, only stated it doesn't take any more off than does a chamois. When ask for some facts all that was offered was that it was said or read some place with no definitive proof. No biggie but it was then pushed as fact with no further effort to back it up. We'll see, I still have the '98 front bumper cover that a deer trampled on before I ran over him and that will make a nice piece to test some of the Horrible Dawn (You'll shoot your eye out", soap. Just need to figure out a credible way to test it.

As far as putting acid in one vial, no, but it sure looks like it could be. Right now I have flaked red rust, nothing much, yellow tint in the bottom, and small rust patches. Also started one with the same prepared nail in Coke, classic. That's my vice, coke-a-cola, don't smoke and seldom drink. Except last night at a party in Michigan, so I had to get a room as I won't drive after one drink.

Did get my pass word to work on photobucket but just got home and haven't put up the pictures yet of the car Andy needs and the test that I decided to run just to see what the soaps would actually do to a nail.

What a party - --, bed time is going to be early tonight.

Thought he did drive a Skoda, the car should be in the automobile hall of fame.

Snip

Don't agree with much more than a week, remember we're talking un-deluted. Besides there will be 6 kids here for the next week between the ages of 2 and

Got photobucket pass word back so I get it up sooner or later.

Nope not me. Why hall of fame?? Prefer to see the Lincoln Mark II or III in the hall of fame... I always liked those cars but don't see them much now.

Tom, I've got to say, I never heard of soap rusting out a car. Maybe trapped water possible. I'm old enough and lived around and never heard of soap making rust. My only gripe against Dawn is the possible soap film on car and rewaxing. Maybe the soap film isn't an issue if you really rinse well, dunno. I'm not using Dawn because where I live, I found a way to get a good car wash so I don't plan to change it now.