Ethanol / gasoline mix

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On the other hand, burning and otherwise using petroleum the past hundred years or so has made the world a perfect paradise. Let's keep right on going.
AJM '93 Ruby coupe, 6 sp (both tops)
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Well at least oil is a known screwup.
Ethanol from corn seems to be screwing things up in a new way which isn't any better. Somehow affecting hunger. You think folks will get pissed if they have $5 gasoline, wait until they are hungry or paying $5.00 for a can of corn or $20/lb for hamberger because the corn to feed the cows is too expensive.
So now we are being screwed by oil and by ethanol.
What's next? Biomass sourced ethanol sounds better but it is a long time off. The corn farmers will fight it tooth and nail.
Vito

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Uncle_vito wrote:

Pure myth, learn some facts http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=food+vs.+ethanol&btnG=Google+Search
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I read one article that states that this is a concern: Make fuel or feed people. I will continue to read.
http://www.energybulletin.net/16544.html

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I guess I misinterpreted Dad when he said it didn't miss a lick but okay, thanks for correcting me. Your further explanation (omitted above) about the performance of ethanol makes sense to me tho I have no facts or experience to back it up. Even in my present cars I can't notice any performance sacrifice but that's only because I don't drive them hard anyway so I probably can't notice it therefore.
Thanks for your info and correcting my errors (and to Dad too).
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It's worse than just that. Since the ethanol is oxygen bearing, the O2 sensor will detect its presense as a lean condition and the ECM will richen the mixture. Thus, you use more fuel and pollute worse.
I live right on the edge of the rural/city boundary and have been able to choose to buy "city gas" with 10% ethanol or normal fuel at home. All my vehicles get noticeably worse mileage on ethanol mix.
Plus, while running ethanol fuel, I lost a drag race to a Subaru Impreza WRX so it must cut the C5's power by at least half ;).
But I am not a chemist.
-rev
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Snip

If there were not to many kids in the WRX it would have beat you anyhow. ;-)) You sound like you're a better chemist than you are a drag racer. :-((
--
Dad
05 C6 Silver/Red 6spd Z51
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The Reverend Natural Light wrote:

Can't speak to the C6 but I do have some C4 & C5 experience that tells me we are hunkering down a dumb path. Excess amounts of this stuff causes brain damage.
First off: I favor occasional, small amounts of ethanol -- from an Oak barrel, aged 8-12 years. Also OK in malt beverages or in a glass of wine. Also good for sterilizing the skin prior to a blood draw. Don't care for Everclear or for putting it in my gas tank.
As a Californian, I pay a good share of the tax hit to support the current 'Ethanol Party.' It's a sort of charity since the stuff doesn't transport well enough to add to the California fuel supply. We use just enough to replace the MTBE that we lost a couple of years ago. (6-7% Ethanol blend is typical here). For this we take a 5% hit on mileage in comparison to when we used MTBE.
BP is working on ethanol from Calif. sugarbeets which will probably put the screws to our beef industry. In exchange for this "good deal", BP and Shell want to drop the refining capacity in this state by 10% -- another good deal at the pump.
In addition to federal taxes, I also pay at the pump since total gasoline consumption is higher and our cost of gas augmented with 6% ethanol is about 10% a gallon higher than what most of the U.S. pays. So, there's not much to be said for the goodness of Ethanol out here. Oh yeah, the air is dirtier since we started using this stuff. (and the Feds have been yelling at us for a couple of years over that problem.)
I think that -rev's 50% hit on C5 performance may be a bit high but, I notice a definite performance hit on desert hill climbs with the C5. The enrichment that -rev is talking about is significant and probably saves the engine. On a hard climb, using Calif. fuel, I occasionally hear that single ping as the retard takes effect. Never have that happen coming back home with Nevada or Utah fuel even though the return trip is usually more "heat soaked" with higher loads on the engine and a/c.
As rev says, "it gets worse..."
Our Ethanol-drunk politicos have cut off the major research dollars for an MTBE replacement. Such a replacement would have given us cleaner air than ethanol, better fuel economy and for the C5, better hot-weather, uphill performance.
Get a good read at:
< http://www.idavette.net/hib/fuel/index.htm
Halvorson does a good job differentiating between pre-L98, L98, LT1/4 and LSn cylinder heads and sound fuel choices for each.
No BS, just Halvorson's opinions based on sound science and experience.
-- pj
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