Years ago my daughter said, "Dad, I love my car." I was hard-hearted and told her that loving a car was nonsense. After all, it's just iron and paint. Don't ever fall in love with a car!
Our Chevy dealer keeps everything in a database and last week a sales guy calls and says my driver @ 18mpg EPA, qualified as a 'clunker' and he could give me $ 3500-4500 over a generous salvage allowance.
Sounded attractive. Then I saw a TV shot of someone pouring sodium silicate in the crankcase of an F-150 and waiting for the engine to seize.
They actually *killed* it, right on TV.
Ouch! It got me -- stab in the heart. Couldn't do it. I would have cried and, more than if I had to kill one of the horses.
Congress wrote and passed the law, with significant a significant number of Republicans voting for it. Typical of ideologically-mesmerized idiots to want to blame everything they don't like on a President. Democrats did the same thing to Bush (i.e.Cheney).
There are a couple of things wrong with this. They are using taxpayer funds paid by people who already bought economical vehicles and rewarded those with gas guzzlers. OK, I can live with that.
If they were thinking (a lot to ask of Congress), they could see that the $4500 payment was a windfall and people were jumping on it. Round two should have been cut to $3500 and spread it further and longer.
There are a couple of things wrong with this. They are using taxpayer funds paid by people who already bought economical vehicles and rewarded those with gas guzzlers. OK, I can live with that.
If they were thinking (a lot to ask of Congress), they could see that the $4500 payment was a windfall and people were jumping on it. Round two should have been cut to $3500 and spread it further and longer.
Bob (non guzzling C5) Drake
I'll seconded that plus they should have paid to have it destroyed and a fee to put it in a salvage yard.
I guess I wasn't done yet, it should also move them into the next tax bracket for accepting a hand out from uncle Leroy, even if it misses it by thousands of dollars.
Lets see..... spending stimulus money to get people to take on more personal debt to pay sales taxes to states. And what nobody talks about is who gets the 1099 for the cash rebate that is taxable income.
I can see there's some worth to this thing environmentally, assuming that all these buckets of bolts wouldn't have been traded in for years otherwise. In terms of finance, I think the added vehicle sales might keep enough folks working who would otherwise have been canned or laid off and on unemployment, that the net effect to the fed's balance sheet might be positive in the end.
So why can't I get past feeling like a sucker, in that I have newer vehicles that are fuel-efficient, and why didn't I get $4500 off the price, or at least a tax credit, for making a good decision?
And why didn't they give us some credit for buying a home we could afford to pay for? Many times I held 2 jobs and did contract work to keep my head above water. At one time 18% with 25% down, '82, check out the rates back then. But then along comes affirmative action and lowers the standard to allow everyone to own a home whether they could pay for it or not. Hell they even allowed some a loan that was 125% of the home value that is now valued at half the original loan. After all they needed to furnish it in a manor suitable to the new status we just bought them. That along with the paper pushers, non-productive type, that balloons it up for a big crash without any loss to their bonus. So now I get to pay for that by higher taxes to bale out some nincompoop that bought into the free lunch. So to correct the problem we build a bigger debt so we can fall just that much harder when it comes and it will come.
Please let me know when your county, city, or state lowers your taxable home value.
Sorry for highjacking this car thread but today I'm pissed at this do good asshole that is pushing us down to his level.
What will the dealers do now that the buyers who ordinarily would have bought in the next 3 mos or so all buy now to get that $4500? The dealers will not have any business for 3 mos!
Also, my 'clunker' gets 18 mpg and the car I have my eye on gets the same. Now what?
taxpayer funds paid by people who already bought economical vehicles and r= ewarded those with gas guzzlers.=A0 OK, I can live with that.I have to live= with that... But I'm not OK with it...--Andrew DeFariaShell to DOS... Come= in DOS, do you copy? Shell to DOS...
Very thought provoking thread. I like Dad's summary of the situation. I think this Cash for Guzzlers Program is much more productive for the environment and the economy than pouring trillions into the coffers of the financial institutions that bundled up upside down mortgages into CDAs and got paid back for it. Worse yet, paid the executives obscene bonuses for their malfeasance.
From what I've read, there are criminal investigations going on and maybe the crooks with get their comeuppance. If the first one (excluding Madoff and Stanford), Bank of America, is an example of this, we are in trouble. The Bank, not Lewis, got fined a paltry $15M.
Bob (this is all going to come back on our children) Drake
I think Dad's being overly cynical. Here's the straight scoop!
Since he asked..., here's good news from the Golden State: Our own County Tax Assessor has been rolling assessed valuations downward since late 2007. Most of these are automatic and the taxpayer need not request re-assessment. Great example of our public servants working hard to make our lives equitable!
Bad news: With a lower overall assessed valuation, the politicos are increasing the tax rate so that tax revenue matches the budget -- ergo... anyone's reprieve is only temporary. The name for this is, "fiscal responsibility."
Worse yet: The effect of this Monkey Motion is to shift a disproportional amount of future tax increases onto Prop. 13 taxpayers (largely seniors in older neighborhoods and long-established small businesses). This makes Mom & Pop pay more for new, outlying infrastructure that doesn't improve their lives. However, fostering growth tends to increase political contributions from developers etc.
Gov. Arnold, "da champion of lower taxes for de common man," *only suspended* scheduled tax increases when he came into office. Now he's canceling those suspension orders.
So, even though I'm now paying a lot more to put plates on my wheels, this isn't a tax increase. It is a cancellation of a suspension of another guy's tax increase.
We are selling public landmarks to balance our budget and provide more tax revenue. Coming soon to your favorite park or Little League field -- a new Wal-Mart!
For another example, Indiana went to a "market value" system of determining assessment, and my home went down by about a percent and a half from a year ago. OTOH, the local school system's budget has been severely cut and they are soliciting donations to rehire laid-off teachers. So far, they've raised enough money to bring back about half of them. All over town you see yard signs that say "SOS 300", given to those who donated at least $300.
The law of unintended consequences.
Money talks. Those without it get to listen.
FWIW, I believe President Obama was passed a hand no self-respecting Texas Hold 'Em player wouldn't throw away. But he was already in for the big blind and a couple of raise calls when he sat down.
You folks with the new $50,000 vettes in Calif. How do you like paying that
9.75% sales tax (some counties in so cal) and the outrageous yearly license fees.
I own an older BMW worth likely $10,000 and just paid $196 to renew the registration.
This comes out to $1000/year to renew the registration on a $50,000 Corvette. (One that is also depreciating likely 10% per year just sitting in your driveway)
I really choke at 'pissing' $50,000 away and getting billed $5000 sales tax and $1000 a year license fees for that wonderful privilege. Not to mention insurance costs.
Wasn't it you that said that you don't buy new because the Corvette loses 30% when you drive it off the lot? With that type of loss the only time you would pay full load would be at purchase time. I guess it just depends on how you want the story to read.
With the high paid talent we have in DC is that possible? With that question I mean to be overly cynical or to get the straight scoop. On the flip side if you could pitch a baseball like that nobody could hit it, of even find it for that matter.
I thought VA was bad. I pay personal property of $196 on a 2000 drop top Vette they have valued at $15,000. Haven't looked lately, but I think it would sell for more. Car tax on antique cars regardless of value is $25 per year.
On your "low ball" idea: I bought a new Malibu Hybrid (loaded $28,750 on the dealers transfer sheet) for $19,500 from a lady who won it in a raffle. I got a Bill of Sale for $19,500 - what I actually paid. I went to get plates at the DMV and there were back and forth discussions in the back room. They brought back a form that I needed to sign and get it notarized. She said the car had a County book value of $26,700 and a "low ball" was suspected. I got to the DMV early (8:00) that day and got in quick. Now I had to go to a bank - when it opened - sign the damn form - get it notarized - then go back to the DMV. The lady at the DMV saw me come back, waived me over, and I jumped the line of about 200 in the electronic queue. Great service for a DMV. Got my title and plates were transferred. I think a real "low baller," if caught, might have a problem in court with the affidavit I signed.
I wondered, but never asked, if the lady was aware of the Federal tax on winning a raffle car. Might have changed the price to me.
Your hybrid is modern and has known blue book price ranges. Very old cars do not. I really haven't bought a private party used car since 95, so I do not know how hard the CA dmv checks. I know cities here are hostile to private sellers putting cars for sale on the streets.
I think the cities want to push all transactions to dealers so they are sure to get all the tax money.
I thought VA was bad. I pay personal property of $196 on a 2000 drop top Vette they have valued at $15,000. Haven't looked lately, but I think it would sell for more. Car tax on antique cars regardless of value is $25 per year.
On your "low ball" idea: I bought a new Malibu Hybrid (loaded $28,750 on the dealers transfer sheet) for $19,500 from a lady who won it in a raffle. I got a Bill of Sale for $19,500 - what I actually paid. I went to get plates at the DMV and there were back and forth discussions in the back room. They brought back a form that I needed to sign and get it notarized. She said the car had a County book value of $26,700 and a "low ball" was suspected. I got to the DMV early (8:00) that day and got in quick. Now I had to go to a bank - when it opened - sign the damn form - get it notarized - then go back to the DMV. The lady at the DMV saw me come back, waived me over, and I jumped the line of about 200 in the electronic queue. Great service for a DMV. Got my title and plates were transferred. I think a real "low baller," if caught, might have a problem in court with the affidavit I signed.
I wondered, but never asked, if the lady was aware of the Federal tax on winning a raffle car. Might have changed the price to me.
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