Brakes squeal!!!!

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I have a '99' Intrepid. I had the rotors turned last year and they rusted and then"peeled" a layer off. Not sure I understand why, I have never had
this happen before. Anyway, I replaced rotors on the front and installed new "anti-squeal" ceramic pads. Well, they squeal at low speeds and when making a right turn, the squeal is louder from the left front. I wanted the ceramic pads to cut down on the dark colored dust that accumulates on the wheels. Anyone have this problem that was able to make the ceramic pads work without squeal?
Thanks, Dan
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Dan wrote:

I used a set of ceramics on my '99 Concorde (same car mechanically) without any squeal at all.
Not sure what you mean by a layer of rust peeling off - unless you're talking about areas (like the rotor vents) that don't get any wear - yeah - they will get a heavy scale rust that will flake off - that is normal. I take it you don't mean that the wear (pad contact) surface actually had metal peel off - that would be highly unusual.
Now, about the squeal - go to this thread on www.dodgeintrepid.net forums: http://www.dodgeintrepid.net/forums/showthread.php?tR011 Scroll down to the 4th post - that's mine (I post there as "Peva"). You will see a description of what the problem could be including a photo of the part (rotor shield) to look for that could be the problem. Several people on this newsgroup and on that site have found that that was indeed the problem on their LH car when they had a persistent brake squeal that they couldn't pin down. It isn't always the problem - it might very well be the pads. It's even money that your problem is the rotor shield rubbing the rotor and not the pads - you probably inadvertently bent one when you worked on the brakes the last time.
Post back with what you find out.
BTW - what pads are you using? I have a reason for asking.
Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my adddress with the letter 'x')
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wrote:

Not unusual at all here in the "rust belt" Major cause of brake problems is pitting/flaking od rotor friction surfaces. Particularly bad with "iron metallic" brake pads. Not as bad with brass, and almost unheard of with carbon. When we had asbestos pads, the problem was virtually unheard of.

Not sure about the last few years, but it used to be if the brakes did not squeal, chances were pretty good you were driving something other than a Chrysler!!

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snipped-for-privacy@sny.der.on.ca wrote:

That's just an asinine comment. The braking systems used by Ford, GM, and Chrysler ALL come from the same set of vendors, mainly Kelsey-Hayes and Bendix. And many foreign car brake systems (especially Japanese) are virtually identical, even when built by other vendors. I've heard squealing brakes from every major brand of vehicle, its extremely common. The cure is to install the pads properly with all the anti-rattle clips and with backing adhesive ("Brake Quiet" type compounds, usually supplied with the pads but also available in larger bottles). Gotta CLEAN the caliper piston and anvil surfaces before applying the stuff or it won't work.
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Yes. Had squeal about 2-3 yr ago on my then fairly new Mercedes.
And I regularly hear squeals from other cars and commercial vehicles, and here in UK our product mix is quite different (even if half or more of the cars are made by GM and Ford).
DAS
For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
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I know the possibility exists that brakes can squeal when braking, but not constantly at low speeds and even worse while turning corners.

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Sorry, didn't take in your post properly. Only on braking.
Still, I doubt that your reported squeal would be particular to any brand.
DAS
For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
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Yes, today they are all MADE by a few companies, but notice the parts are not necessarily interchangeable between systems built by one company for different car manufacturers. There is the little thing called design. It is controlled not by the brake manufacturer, but by the auto manufacturer, who specifies how it is to be built.
Also, if you look back just a few years, GM used exclusively Delco Moraine - which was a wholly owned GM subsidiary.Chrysler used almost exclusively their own manufacture, with a good mix of Kelsey Hayes thrown in in later years.AMC used Delco Moraine, Bendix, and Bendix/Budd hybrids (bendix calipers and Budd rotors) And any mechanic who lived through the eighties in North America KNOWS Chrysler's reputation at the time for squealing brakes - whether you worked for a Chrysler dealer or not.
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To my knowledge (and its fairly good...) Chrysler hasn't used a brake system "of their own manufacture" since AT LEAST 1965, and I'm guessing more like 1955. It as far as disk brakes go, been 99% K-H since 65, with a few odd Bendix applications (4-piston front calipers on '67-69 B-bodies and some A-bodies) and Budd (~66 C-bodies and a few others) over that time.
AMC used Delco Moraine, Bendix, and

Bullfeathers. GMs squealed just as much as Chryslers ever did, if not more. Seems like every GM A-body that drove by me in the 80s (Regals, Cutlasses, MonteCarlos" were squeaking away.
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Yep, actual pad contact area. When NAPA's shop turned the rotors, they used a pattern I have never seen before. I just assumed it was the newest way to turn them, so not much thought. Now, I am wondering if the real tight cross hatch pattern was too close and/or deep and rust was able to build up and eventually peel off a "layer" of steel. I first thought the rotors had warpped, as that is what it felt like when braking.

Sure will. Never thought about the sheild, just assumed the new pads.

Bought Pads and rotors at AutoZone. They were that only shop here who had them in stock. The pads are Morse Ceramic.

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Autozone sells "nice" Chinese rotors. Next time mail order a set of Brembo's from Tire Rack. If it's not the shield, check that they but lube or anti noise compound on the back of the pads and on the pins and other contact areas.
Richard.
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Richard wrote:

Good point about checking for anti-noise goop. I always just use silicone grease for that.
Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my adddress with the letter 'x')
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Morse is located in Chicago. In the write ups I read, their pads are rated well. This is not a high performance car (my wife drives it), so I was/am not in the market for $100.00 set of pads. I do watch what I buy from AutoZone, these pads break well, better than the ones I bought at NAPA and paid more for, that died with my rotors after <9 months of use. And, I did apply a noise compound to the pads. I will be looking at the shield Saturday, I'll post the results.
Dan

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All:
It turned out to be the shield rubbing the inside of the rotor. Bent it out a little and the squeals are gone. did both front shields. As for the other questions, yes, I did replace the expander (anti rattle) clips, yes, I did re-lube the caliper pins, yes, I did put anti-squeal grease on them. The only thing that resolved it was bending out the shield.
Thanks to ALL who gave me ideas to look at. Dan

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Dan wrote:

Dan, I noticed the same problem about 2 years or so ago on my 99 Intrepid. (search on Intrepid brake subway squeal) I would hear squeaking noises, especially after wet days. Eventually I traced the problem to the heat shield on the inside of the front rotors. Apparently they are very close to the rotor when installed at the factory. Over time the metal rusts a little, it picks up small debris, etc. until the rotor is contacted, causing the noise. The noise is most noticeable on a side when turning in the opposite direction--e.g. a sharp left turn would make the right side sing.
The fix for me was to carefully bend the shield farther away from the rotor. I used thin cardboard to protect the rotors while carefully bending it with a screwdriver, then sliding cardboard in the cap to clean out all the crap. I wouldn't remove the shield because it protects the steering knuckles from the heat of the wheel bearings and the brakes.
Sometimes I do hear a squeaking noise after rainy days that appears to come from the rear wheels but who knows. I suspect it is caused by a thin layer of rust somewhere. Since my vehicle is still covered by service contract, I will ask a dealership soon about some other minor noises (I think) I've been hearing from the front end.
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Thanks, I am going to tear it down and look at it Saturday. I'll post back.

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did you clean and lube the caliper slides and keep the anti rattle clips in place? the rubber boot of the caliper is suppose to pull the pad away from the rotor ever so slightly to help cut squeal
Dan wrote:

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All:
It turned out to be the shield rubbing the inside of the rotor. Bent it out a little and the squeals are gone. did both front shields. As for the other questions, yes, I did replace the expander (anti rattle) clips, yes, I did re-lube the caliper pins, yes, I did put anti-squeal grease on them. The only thing that resolved it was bending out the shield.
Thanks to ALL who gave me ideas to look at. Dan

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Dan wrote:

Glad you got it fixed!
BTW - the things that are being called "anti-rattle" clips (I think that's a misnomer) are one of two types. One type is just a wear surface between the pads and the rub points on the steering knuckle. There is also a differenet type that is actually a pad spreader - keeps a little spring force outward on the pads that helps retract them away from the rotor. You can use either type, but only one type at a time. The second type, though shown in the FSM, were not available from DC until a few months ago - if you ordered them, what you got were the wear bars. I'm glad they made the retractors avaialable - they are bound to help in rotor wear and heat (warp).
So which type did you put on? To see photos, look at my third post (the one with the photos) in this thread on the 300M Club forums: http://300mclub.100megs42.com/forums/viewtopic.php?te03&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start0 The first two photos are of the pad retractors; the second two photos are of the wear bars.
Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my adddress with the letter 'x')
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Bill, I did install new Retractor Clips. I got them at my local Dodge shop. They sell them 4 in a pack. Interesting though, it appears that they are only used on the front, the rear did not have them. Again, thanks for your help. Dan

http://300mclub.100megs42.com/forums/viewtopic.php?te03&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start0
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