Can someone explain Dodge Service Dept's to me...

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I took my car in for 3 issues...
1) P0404 code (EGR Valve stuck) on the odometer when I turn the key on-off-on-off-on, except when I took it into the dealer to have them check
it out, they wouldn't even look at the EGR Valve because the code was no longer in the computer. I told them I saw the code on the odometer display using this method AND by using a scan tool from AutoZone. They told me the AutoZone tool is worthless, just so they can charge $70.00 to connect theirs, but it showed the exact same code as the ignition method.
2) My car has been hesitating, lurching, bucking, whatever you want to call it, while maintaining a constant speed. They said they sprayed water on the plug wires and they are arcing to ground. Need to replace the wires AND the plugs they said! I Just had the plugs and wires changed 6 weeks ago! Top of the line stuff too. But instead of saying to replace the wires only, they said the plugs too! Why? My regular mechanic said they are full of BS.
3) My car clunks when I shift into a gear, and when I take off - my regular mechanic says Torque Converter and it's killing the CV Joints. I told them this, they said they could not duplicate the issue so they did nothing! I picked my car up from the dealer and when i put it in gear and took off - SAME CLUNKING sounds! What the heck? They wouldn't even check the Torque Convert and CV joints out - most likely because there was no computer code for them.
Why are dealer service dept's like this? Why don't they fix your car when you take it to them? I'm so sick of dealers. I have an extended warranty and my guess is that they want out of it as cheaply as they can, wait till the warranty is over, then fix the car for 2-3x what a regular mechanic will charge you. I'm sick of it - can someone explain to me why this is?
Ticked off bad,
-TRogers
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And if they would have replaced the EGR valve and if it didnt fix it you would be right back at the dealer complaining because your car wasnt fixed. You DONT replace a part just because there is a code!!!!

call
the
the
of
Why the hell dont you take it back to the place that put the plugs and wires on it!!! if you spray water and see them arcing there is a problem!!!!!!!!!!!! Your regular mechanic needs to be replaced!!!!

regular
SO WHY DIDNT YOUR MECHANIC FIX THE PROBLEM??? Damn stop Crying!!!!

and
I can explain it to you and i have never told anyone this but your an Idiot!!! you post a question here, or should I say you cry on here , dont give a year make or model and expect to get answers. get a life or buy a Ford!!
Glenn Beasley Chrysler Tech. at the dealer!!

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I didn't ask them to replace it! All I asked them to do was to physically check the EGR Valve to make sure it was working ok. That's it - period. They did not, because there was no code at the time.

This problem did NOT exist when the plugs and wires were changed out. The car IS going back to them tomorrow, but the EGR problem came up BEFORE the plugs and wires were changed. AND the regular mechanic used the OEM parts at a lower price than what a dealer would charge for them.

Because I have an extended warranty - Chrysler Added Care Plus - that will cover this crap. Why pay much more than you have to? I have a $100.00 deductible, that is a heck of a lot better than $750.00 or so to tear apart the transmission.
I have a right to voice my opinion in a public forum such as this. You have a problem with my rant because you are a dealer tech, but it's not directed at you, so take it easy!

So I'm an "idiot" because a Dodge dealer service dept did not do their job right and I chose to rant about it on a public forum? I didn't name names either. If it makes you feel better to resort to name calling, feel free - I have broad shoulders. Whatever floats your boat.
Look, I did NOT post my year/make/model because I DON'T want someone on here to tell me what is/might be wrong. I just want to know why you take a car to a dealer, tell them specifically what the problem(s) are, just ask them to check it out and PHYSICALLY see if the EGR is ok, PHYSICALLY see that the Torque Converter is ok, PHYSICALLY see that the CV joints are ok. But it seems like, if there is no computer code, there's no problem.
And that's MY problem. I asked them to PHYSICALLY check it out, you know, get their hands dirty, but they refused because there is no computer code.
Stop taking offense because you work for a dealer. This is NOT aimed at Glenn Beasley, but the dealer service centers that I have been to (2 of them). They charge WAY too much for labor, over-price all their parts, and then don't troubleshoot all the issues fully or correctly.
If I did my job this way, I would not have a job.

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Check your deductable. I believe, and I could be wrong, that deductable is $50 at Chrysler/Dodge dealership and $100 elsewhere. Mine is that way anyhow.

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no
you
physically
on
AND
Top
The
the
parts
nothing!
Torque
will
you,
warranty
will
dont
a
job
have
car
them
Torque
know,
The deductible ranges from 0 to 100 dollars, depending on what you paid for the contract. the higher the deductible the lower the contract would cost. His contract doesn't cover an EGR valve
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I stand corrected. My stupid. My warranty covers everything - including electrical, emissions, drive train, and yes even paint - everything. I asked that question several times and found it also in writing. I think I even get 2 years of free oil changes as well as part of the deal but that may be a dealership incentive. I need to verify that one.

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wrote:

An EGR valve is covered as an emission part for a minimum of 80000 miles by federal law.
--
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clare at snyder.on.ca wrote:

2 years, 24,000 miles. Been that way since 1996
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It's $100.00 at Dodge dealers, or anywhere for that reason.

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On Thu, 10 May 2007 12:49:47 -0400, "Tom Rogers"
Federal Emissions Coverage: Components under the federal emission defect warranty are covered for 36 months/36,000 miles and specified major emission control components are covered for 8 years/80,000 miles. Specified major emission control components under emission performance warranty are also covered for 8 years/80,000 miles. In addition, emission performance warranty is applicable for 24 months/24,000 miles in states and local jurisdictions that require a periodic EPA-approved inspection and maintenance program.
Also:
The Hidden Warranty (and secret Chrysler warranties) The universal "hidden warranty"Every car sold in the United States comes with a warranty you may not be aware of. It covers a variety of components for five years or 50,000 miles. Newer cars are be covered by an even longer warranty on selected components, such as the computer and catalytic converter. This is the "emissions warranty," designed to ensure that American cars do not pollute as badly as they otherwise would. It places the burden of emission system reliability on the automaker, so they have to find ways to make the car stay "clean" for as long as they can, or pay to fix it. There are actually longer warranties available for many cars depending on the year. Check your manual or the DOT.
Buying a new car? You don't need to get an extended warranty from the dealer; click here for another extended warranty source. (Allpar benefits from your choice.) Check your warranty booklet for details. 1993 models, for example, covered not just the obvious emissions-related items, but also the coil, fuel injection, spark plugs, speed and temperature sensors, throttle body, turbocharger, even secondary ignition wires. (Some of these items are only covered to the first replacement interval - e.g. spark plugs are covered until 30,000 miles or so). Catalytic converters on vehicles built after 1995 are warranted for eight years or 80,000 miles.
If your dealer gives you trouble - some claim ignorance and refuse to believe the booklet that comes with the car! - try calling Chrysler at 800 992 1997. If that fails, or for more information than you get with your car, write to:
Director, Field Operation and Support Division (6406J) EPA 401 M Street Southwest Washington, DC 20460
--
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no
you
You have to connect a scan tool to properly test the EGR and or check monitors. More then likely you didnt want to pay the diagnostic test to have tis done or they would have done it

Top
they
Top of the line wires? did it just go from top of the line to now MOPAR wires?. If the top of the line wires fouled a plug the technician would have wanted to cover his ass and replace the fouled plug as well because you would have been complaining that the misfire was still there

at
If you used OEM parts that were 6 weeks old they would have been covered under the warranty and the dealer would have replaced them for free. if the wires were arcing they were cheap parts

I
off -

Torque
Chrysler added care plus does NOT cover EGR valves!!!
Why pay much more than you have to? I have a $100.00 deductible,

transmission.
have
so
I have no problem of your rant, im voicing my opinion just as you are and im not in any way offended by what you say. You are taking you car and having someone else check it out and crying Warranty. then when you take it to the dealer you dont want to pay to have it checked out because some "Philthy" said it was bad

when
warranty
will
As I stated, your plan does not cover EGR Valves. is this EGR valve causing your other problems that set the code???

dont
No your an idiot because you think a technician is going to look at your car and fix it based on what another "Philthy" said was wrong with it. Apparently the shop that put the plugs and wires on it 6 weeks ago misdiagnoised your problem, put cheap parts on your car and now they cant fix it so they tell you it is warranty!!

here
O yea, Now that makes alot of sense!! You tell them what is wrong with the vehicle or just ask them to check and dont want to pay the diagnostic charge

no
WAY
fully
Over priced all parts?? What the ones that dont cause arcing when water is sprayed on them?

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wrote:

Diagnostics not covered by warrantee and required before repair can be done? Come on. MAX - your dealers are stooping THAT LOW?

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On Wed, 9 May 2007 19:48:33 -0400, "Tom Rogers"

I can't fully explain it, but it has been a problem for quite some time. Not just Dodge dealers - but a large proportion of "american" dealers. Sadly it's even starting to hit the import service departments now too. Number one, service managers are salesmen, not mechanics. If they can't bill something, they can't/won't do anything. Number two, mechanics work on flat rate. If they can't bill something, they won't do anything. Number three, too many mechanics today don't know how to troubleshoot. Vehicles have gotten more complex, and mechanics have gotten to depend on the computer diagnostics. If the computer says there is no problem the can't/won't do anything. Number four, the "salesman" service managers don't like ANYONE telling them what's wrong with the car or second guessing them. They are "sick and tired" of people who "know more than the mechanic", so they don't listen to anybody any more. If the mechanic cannot (in a VERY short time) duplicate the problem, he won't do anything. Number five, Why fix it under warranty if they can "make it go away" until it gets off warranty and becomes a big enough job they can all make some bucks on it.(or sell you a new car).
It all boils down to greed. One of the reasons I got out of that business. I was service manager for 10 years - and I WAS a mechanic. My mechanics were NOT on flat rate. If my mechanics could not troubleshoot a problem, I could (and did). I and my mechanics were trained and constantly upgraded to understand the vehicle systems and failure modes. If you didn't want to keep up and/or couldn't/wouldn't learn, you found yourself a different job. The customer was king. HE knew what was bothering him about the car. I asked the right questions to be able to point the mechanic in the right direction to find the problem. I would very often PERSONALLY test drive the car with the owner both before and after the repair to verify the problem/repair. EVERY repair was test driven by the mechanic when finished.
In the 10 years I was service manager I made the Dealer Principal over $1million. He wasn't happy.(read that "he was greedy") He wanted me to charge for every little thing I did for a customer, even though a work-order cost $25 (20 years ago) to process over it's lifetime, and many of the little things I did for customers would have been terribly overpriced at the $25 it would have taken to just break even.
The service department sold more cars than the salesmen.
I walked. The dealership hired a salesman as service manager and went flat rate. A lot of customers walked.
Whenever I started missing "the business" I just whacked my head a few times until the feeling went away. After about 5 years I stopped missing it altogether.
--
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Now THAT is what I was looking for! Thank you VERY MUCH for sharing this! I totally agree with this perception!
-Tom
<clare at snyder.on.ca> wrote in message wrote:

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I drive my car 100 miles per day, round trip to work and home. I know when the slightest thing is out of whack with my car cause I drive it so much. I would be the best person to identify an issue and be able to tell a mechanic what is going on. They should then go in and check it out FULLY. Not give me this crap about "if there's no computer code, there's nothing to fix." Then charge me $70.00 for the 10 minutes he scan-tooled the computer.
Why the heck would I make something up (ex: P0404 EGR code) just to take my car into the shop and pay out hard earned money? THAT doesn't make sense. The only time my car is in the shop is when there is a problem. And now, with the NYS inspections, emissions is a big issue - if ANY computer code is on, you DON'T pass inspection. Anyway...
I wish you were running the show where I took my car - I would be one VERY happy, repeat customer!
-Tom

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I
mechanic
me
Then
my
is
Not saying you made something up, The code could have been set for a number of things, Computer related, vacuum related, wiring related or even a PCM fault. If the lite is not on that means that the problem had corrected itself, it is NOT a hard fault meaning the problem is not there at this time. It would be a stored fault with a possible intermittent problem!! Therefore if the dealer or whoever charged you a check out fee. It would have come back as an educated guess to fix your problem or no work performed at this time and you would have been charged for the check out time! Thus feeling like you spent money for absolutely nothing!! There are TSB's out that require a reflash of the engine controller that may or may not pertain to your problem. since you do not want to specify year make and model all you have on here is going to be a gripe that your independent/dealer can not fix your car

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On Thu, 10 May 2007 14:35:19 -0400, "maxpower"

Max, without knowing the make/model/year, other than it's a Mopar - Any Mopar mechanic worth his salt knows the EGR issues on the 4 cyl engines - and knows they can be intermittent. The LEAST they could have done is checked for a bad vacuum hose. They are VERY COMMON. It is a WELL KNOWN PROBLEM. It costs about a buck to fix. Every Chrysler dealership mechanic should be checking for the problem every time they work on one of these cars - complaint or not - CEL or not. And the dealer should be supplying the hose FREE OF CHARGE for every one found bad. Best customer relations you could envision - "by the way, there was a minor problem with your emission system -We fixed it for you - here's the part we replaced - NO CHARGE - Have a good day!!" Best buck and 5 minutes you could ever spend.

--
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<clare at snyder.on.ca> wrote in message

when
much.
give
take
sense.
now,
code
number
performed
pertain
not
WRONG!! As I said there are reflashes out on particular model Minivans tha require a flash of the PCM to install software that will update the engine controller for an intermittent fault for turning the Check engine lite on and setting a code for the EGR . Once again ...WORNG The newer model vehicles do NOT use a vacuum controlled EGR. it is all electronic. If you knew what you were talking about you would Know that a P0404 fault code is An EGR postion sensor fault there fore this valve is strickly electronic and DOES NOT use vacuum to operate the EGR valve. Try again
Glenn

VERY
telling
"sick
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If one were to assume that vacuum operated EGR valves and EGR position sensors must be mutually exclusive in any possible EGR system then one's assumption would also be WORNG.
Toyota MDT in MO
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wrote:

Quick, name a Dodge vehicle with a vacuum operated EGR system that uses a position sensor.
And what the hell does 'WORNG' mean?

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