Can someone explain Dodge Service Dept's to me...

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I can't, quick or otherwise. Now go back and read what I wrote about *any* EGR design possibility. Some vehicles currently driving on the road have both a vacuum-operated EGR valve and a position sensor. Now read the message I was replying to, and imagine if one were to think that, just because one had a P0404 code, then one could not have a vacuum hose somewhere in their EGR system. (any make, any model, theoretical or otherwise)

Damn, are you *that* thick? Read the message I responded to. The key "word" is even in capitals. You did quote both messages.
Toyota MDT in MO
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wrote:

No surprise there...

The OP wasn't talking about *any* EGR design possibility, I believe he was talking about a Dodge dealer. On a Dodge, a vacuum operated EGR and an EGR position sensor would be mutually exclusive.

I see you don't get sarcasm either. I won't bother explaining.

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I never said I could, so why would there be a surprise at any cost? I know the OP referred to a Chrysler product. I realize there is some wisdom in maxpower's point regarding non-vacuum controlled EGR valves and a P0404. Unfortunately, he (you?) is dimwitted enough to never consider the big picture as evidenced by a great number of his posts. His attack of claresnyder(sp) was pretty weak, but expected. Again, read what I said and find any technical fault with it. You can't? Great.

Again, no shit. Did you google that info? Are you sure of it from real world experience? I'm *fairly* certain that it's true, enough to not bother arguing (on Chryslers) but wouldn't rule it out completely. Of course, I hardly touch Chrysler products but still understand that generality off the top of my head. Don't own any, have only a few in my circle, don't see them or care obout them. I would be emabarrased for any Chrysler enthusiast/mechanic that *didn't* know that. BTW, there were plenty of different control systems introduced from joint ventures such as the Diamond Star badged imports which could show up at a "Dodge dealer". Do you know if all of them (including pre-1996 California quasi-OBDII models) were devoid of vacuum EGR/lift sensors?

I'm certain your question was one of intentional sarcasm. Its wittiness was multifaceted and gay.
Toyota MDT in MO
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wrote:

Technical fault? No. Irrelevant, considering the OP was talking about a Chrysler product? Yes!
If you want to use irrelevant posts to take weak shots at somebody 'cause you don't like 'em, then knock yourself out. I was just pointing out that Glenn was right, and your post didn't make any sense in the context of this thread.

No, but you may want to give it a try.

Yes.
Yes.
Such eloquence!

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Correct. I wasn't attempting to be relevant. I can't do that 24/7 365.

I already conceded that -however- knew it when posting. I've been pissy on NG lately and it shows. Oh well, life goes on. FWIW, I feel Glenn is a real asset to posters regarding Chrysler help. I have deliberately scrolled right down to his replies for years, but take issue with the manner that he (occasionally) jumps on people, in the sense that he gets bent really easily. He doesn't always see all sides to the issue, and rather goes into tunnel vision attack mode. He's never responded to me, even in the beginning when my replies were of the kinder, more collaborative nature. I guess that my posts, both good and malevolent are blocked, ignored, don't show on his reader, whatever... and life goes on.

Google wouldn't be my choice for auto info, especially trying to determine which vehicles in the Chryco lineup, if any, ever came equipped with the aforementioned combination.

That makes one of us.

Now *that's* proper sarcasm!
Toyota MDT in MO
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wrote:

I read all the post's and dont block any of them out. I have just as much right to say what I want to say as the next person. I will NOT get into Bullshit discussions that come out of what is said on here. I dont have time for that. The fact is, the OP made it sound as if the dealer was supposed to check his vehicle out for free. We dont get paid by the hour we get paid by the work we do. Just because the OP was told his EGR valve was bad by another dealer does not mean the dealer is going to replace it. The OP has purchased a low line service contract that does not cover EGR valves therefore if he wanted it checked out he would have had to pay for it. Most people I find on here that cry do not tell the whole side of the story. You would be surprised of how many e mails I get from Posters on here about there issues. They dont tell the complete story that was acually done to the car to try and fix it. A vin number tells alot about the history of a vehicle and the work that has been done to try and correct a problem. I forget who said it.... but the OP's vehicle has an electronic EGR valve. Unless you acually get the scan tool out and run the monitor to check it, which means driving the vehicle under a certain speed and a certian load you can not test this device. Once again, it has no vacuum hose to it. So what I said in my first post was merely making a point that the OP was crying NOT FIXED when he did not want to pay to have it checked out after the Independent shop blew him off to the dealer. I only work on Dodge and Chrysler Products and that is what we were talking baout therefore I had no reason to answer the question about other EGR valves on a different Manufactures vehicle.Once again, i do this as a favor to those who have a ligitmate question or problem. I spend alot of time researching and going thru wire schematics to answer questions. I dont have time for the bullshit that goes on such as this thread.
Glenn

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Thanks for replying. Many dealer techs work on a wide variety of vehicles which usually comes from their mass of trade-in resales. I guess your shop is different or you have one specific guy to do that work. Your dealer doesn't sell the Jeep line?
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wrote:

on those vehicles, We are not able to get the Jeep franchise because a dealer down the street has it. I have worked on Dodge for 20 years but got out of that 7 years ago. We have one technician that works on all used vehicles. He inspects and does the repairs Glenn
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On Fri, 11 May 2007 13:00:49 -0400, "maxpower"

Like I said - no model info so we are all guessing. Last Chrysler I worked on was a '98. PO401 code - insufficient EGR flow.(had to go check) PO404 means the sensor thinks the pintle(or whatever) is in the wrong position for the requested flow, while PO401 means the A/F ratio does not change in proper relation to the requested flow. (Insufficient EGR flow)

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<clare at snyder.on.ca> wrote in message

I know what the codes means and how to diagnois them, You were saying that "The least they could have done was check for a bad vacuum hose" I was just point out there this vehicle has no vacumm hose and has to be diagnoised with a scan tool. Ap0401 and a P0404 are 2 totally different faults

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On Sat, 12 May 2007 06:03:51 -0400, "maxpower"

stated.
And SOME vehicles use elecrit controls to vacuum operators, with electrical feedback. Same codes can STILL be aused by bad vacuum components. Mabee not on a Dodge?
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OK Maxpower,
I have 2 minivans, a 94 and 95 T&C with the 3.8L BOTH vans do this - set the EGR code in the CEL, intermittently. I've swapped valves, replaced them, taken the old ones apart. No problems, no cracked diaphram, selonoids work. EGR system passes all the diagnostics in the FSM. Both vans pass NoX emissions with flying colors. This problem has been happening for years on both of these vans.
This is the FIRST time I've read in this forum any statement from anyone claiming to be a dealership mechanic that this is a known problem with a firmware update for the engine computer to fix it on certain vans.
So, are mine part of this known problem? If so, what is the TSB #?
Ted
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Hi Ted
Yes and here is the TSB# 18-01-97 (keep in mind this is a Canadian TSB # not sure if it is the # for the states) Claude
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What code? EGR Solenoid Circuit or EGR System failure?

You mention nothing about replacing the part with a new part? The tiny male pins in the transducer solenoid are known to get water in them and corrode or even break off and setting the Solenoid fault

I never said it was a know problem. The OP was crying on here about his deal with the dealer and I said Since he wont give out year/make/model he wont get help. I said there there was a reflash out on a particular year van. There is no reflash out on yours.

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There is a flash update for said vehcile TSB#18-01-97 (keep in mind this is a Canadian TSB # not sure if it is the # for the states)
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if the fault code is for EGR system failure. It only pertains to setting a fault where the ambient temp is below 40 degree F and that is the TSB that was posted earlier.
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It is the general EGR system failure code. And yes I did try a new valve in one of the vehicles. And no, the pins on the selonoids are fine. It could possibly be bad FEMALE contacts in the selonoid plug - but to have both vehicles doing it?
I don't live in an area with a lot of corrosion (no salt on the roads, etc.) so general we don't see corrosion issues on electrical. But, as for ambient temp being below 40 - that one I don't know. I hadn't noticed. The fact that the computers are flashable, though, that's useful. I'll have to get one of them done and see if it makes a difference.
Ted
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sets in the winter?
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It is very random. It will go for months without doing it then do it several times in succession. The more common trigger appears to be crusing at around 55Mph for a long period of time - such as a half hour. Interestingly enough, if I cruise for the same period of time at 65Mph it usually -won't- do it. But, I've had it do it 10 minutes after starting the van, and just doing 30Mph city driving.
I can do the test procedure in the FSM all day long to each van and the EGR valve always checks out, whether the van is hot or cold.
Both vehicles behave the same way and both give the same error codes, and both have very low NoX emissions. We have state-run IM testing here and you can take a vehicle through the test center for free any time you want. Both seem to have done this with the same regularity in both summer and winter. But, the coldest it ever gets here during winter is about down to 28 degrees.
In other factoids, both engines have very different maintainence histories. The 95 was bathed in oil, serviced by the dealer. The 94 was bathed in dirt, and serviced by Clive with an assortment of kitchen implements. (I bought both vans used) The 94 seems to have been very happy with getting back on to a regular oil change regimen, and better maintainence. The 94 has about 145K on it, the 95 has about 120K on it.
I have an OTC Monitor 4000E with the engine computer connector and one of these days if I get ambitious I keep thinking I'll set it up to record events, and see if I can catch the thing doing it. One obstacle to doing that, though, is that now with the better weather, I'm riding the CB750 every day and haven't done much driving in the van.
Ted
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On Fri, 18 May 2007 23:23:51 -0700, "Ted Mittelstaedt"

When i looked, that TSB only appllied to '95 models. Didn't see it for the '94, but I could have missed it.
The fact that it's intermittent could have something to do with when the PCM actually runs the EGR 'monitor'. It's under specific conditions, so it may run at one speed (load) and not another. It does run under light load, steady cruise conditions. The PCM compares short term fuel trim without EGR to STFT with EGR. If there isn't enough of a shift, the fault is set.
It could also be that they are right at the edge of failure. Sometimes they'll fail and sometimes they won't. Partially blocked EGR tubes and intake manifold passages could cause it.
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