I am working on a 91 dodge colt. The car will run as long as I hold the key in the start position .As soon as I let the key return to the on position the car dies. What might this be? also is their a older points distributer for the 4 cyl mitsubishi motor that would interchange ? I would love to get away from this computer junk. :?:
IIRC there is a ballast resistor on that coil. If so, it is shot or a connection between it and the ignition switch is bad. Most likely an open resistor. As for putting in a points system instead of electronic, you are free to do as you please, but in my opinion, it is a definite step back into the stone age. There is no computer involved in the ignition on that car yet.Just a simple amplifier.
"user441" wrote: > On 28 Mar 2005 16:15:50 -0500, mccreadys4 > wrote: > > >I am working on a 91 dodge colt. The car will run as long as > I hold > >the key in the start position .As soon as I let the key > return to the > >on position the car dies. What might this be? also is their a > older > >points distributer for the 4 cyl mitsubishi motor that would > >interchange ? I would love to get away from this computer > junk. :?: > > IIRC there is a ballast resistor on that coil. If so, it is > shot or a > connection between it and the ignition switch is bad. Most > likely an > open resistor. As for putting in a points system instead of > electronic, you are free to do as you please, but in my > opinion, it is > a definite step back into the stone age. There is no computer > involved > in the ignition on that car yet.Just a simple amplifier.
If this car has a resistor I don?t see it at the coil. The coil stays hot according to my test light . I am wondering about the starter relay? It makes a lot of clicking and the car seems to die right after the key is released from the start position and the relay makes it?s last click. As for the points change being a step back , If I could go back 2 steps I might have a chance of understanding what the heck is going on ! All this new stuff that?s supposed to be so great seems to keep me here. If this car had points I would have her running right now and wouldn?t need HELP!! Thanks mike :roll:
I think while the starter realy is engaged it supplies full battery voltage to the coil to facilitate starting; when the relay is deactivated the voltage to the coil is to then come through the ballast resistor, which it apparently isn't doing. Seems like it pretty much has to be in that simple circuit. I thought a lot of Chryslers had the resistor right on the firewall(?)
This is a mitsubishi! Not a Chrysler. And 9/10 it is the resistor on the distributor. And it is not available from the dealer. It is packaged with the distributor and is expensive. You can get one at a jobber.
>
If it had points it could STILL have the same problem (many did)
"user441" wrote: > On 29 Mar 2005 13:04:11 -0500, mccreadys4 > wrote: > > >"user441" wrote: > > > On 28 Mar 2005 16:15:50 -0500, mccreadys4 > > > < snipped-for-privacy@AutoForumz.com> wrote: > > > > > > >I am working on a 91 dodge colt. The car will > run as long as > > > I hold > > > >the key in the start position .As soon as I > let the key > > > return to the > > > >on position the car dies. What might this be? > also is their a > > > older > > > >points distributer for the 4 cyl mitsubishi > motor that would > > > >interchange ? I would love to get away from > this computer > > > junk. :?: > > > > > > IIRC there is a ballast resistor on that coil. If > so, it is > > > shot or a > > > connection between it and the ignition switch is > bad. Most > > > likely an > > > open resistor. As for putting in a points system > instead of > > > electronic, you are free to do as you please, but in > my > > > opinion, it is > > > a definite step back into the stone age. There is no > computer > > > involved > > > in the ignition on that car yet.Just a simple > amplifier. > >
This is a 1990 colt model C52amfsexl2d engine 4g15 If anyone knows of a points distributor that would interchange I would be willing to try it . My local salvage yard has been of no help. I think if the resistor went bad their should be no electric at the coil, true? The coil has electric, isn?t their a control box of some sort ? Where dose the power go after the pick up head in the distributor? I understood the points system, open points, coil field colapses and spark jumps to the nearest ground through the rotor which pointed at the cylinder ready to fire. points close coil builds up charge for the next go round. All the electric ignitions I ever encountred had a control box of one sort or another. One fellow told me this one is controled through the computer ( also spendy) And I would hate to pay for one then have it go out in a few weeks. Also , I would not be able to trust the car ,unless I feel I have a chance to fix it at the roadside. I feel I can do this with points. Thanks. :?:
If your engine has what I think it has for ignition, the distributor has 2 wires going into it (yellow and black IIRC), one connected to the + side of the coil, and one to the - side. Inside the distributor is a "module" with 2 connectors - "C" and "B". The "B" side connects to the coil positive, which is connected to the battery through the ignition switch , and in most cases a ballast resistor while in the run position. When in the crank position, some ignition switches have an IGN2 position, while other vehicles have an "R" connector on the starter solenoid, which both provide full cranking voltage to the coil when cranking - bypassing the resistor.
The module does EXACTLY what the points do in an old "kettering" point ignition. The "C" wire grounds the coil, and then ungrounds it to produce a spark.
With the ignition turned on, engine not cranking, there should be something like 8.5 volts, more or less, at the coil +, and little or no voltage on the coil - (less than 1 volt, anyway). When the engine is cranked, the voltage at the coil + should be within a couple tenths of battery voltage(when cranking this should be between aprox 9.5 and
12).As the engine fires when cranked, it's pretty obvious this voltage is not your problem.
Now, the N> > > >
"user441" wrote: > On 2 Apr 2005 10:33:29 -0500, mccreadys4 > wrote: > > > If your engine has what I think it has for ignition, the > distributor > has 2 wires going into it (yellow and black IIRC), one > connected to > the + side of the coil, and one to the - side. Inside the > distributor > is a "module" with 2 connectors - "C" and "B". The "B" side > connects > to the coil positive, which is connected to the battery > through the > ignition switch , and in most cases a ballast resistor while > in the > run position. When in the crank position, some ignition > switches have > an IGN2 position, while other vehicles have an "R" connector > on the > starter solenoid, which both provide full cranking voltage to > the coil > when cranking - bypassing the resistor. > > The module does EXACTLY what the points do in an old > "kettering" point > ignition. The "C" wire grounds the coil, and then ungrounds it > to > produce a spark. > > With the ignition turned on, engine not cranking, there should > be > something like 8.5 volts, more or less, at the coil +, and > little or > no voltage on the coil - (less than 1 volt, anyway). When the > engine > is cranked, the voltage at the coil + should be within a > couple tenths > of battery voltage(when cranking this should be between aprox > 9.5 and > 12). > > As the engine fires when cranked, it's pretty obvious this > voltage is > not your problem. > > Now, the NON CRANKING ignition voltage - don't just trust a > high > impedence digital voltmeter. Put a test light from the coil + > to > ground - it MUST light. If it does not, the ballast resistor > or the > circuit feeding it is dead. > >"user441" wrote: > > > On 29 Mar 2005 13:04:11 -0500, mccreadys4 > > > < snipped-for-privacy@AutoForumz.com> wrote: > > > > > > >"user441" wrote: > > > > > On 28 Mar 2005 16:15:50 -0500, > mccreadys4 > > > > > > < snipped-for-privacy@AutoForumz.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > >I am working on a 91 dodge > colt. The car will > > > run as long as > > > > > I hold > > > > > >the key in the start > position .As soon as I > > > let the key > > > > > return to the > > > > > >on position the car dies. > What might this be? > > > also is their a > > > > > older > > > > > >points distributer for the > 4 cyl mitsubishi > > > motor that would > > > > > >interchange ? I would love > to get away from > > > this computer > > > > > junk. :?: > > > > > > > > > > IIRC there is a ballast resistor on > that coil. If > > > so, it is > > > > > shot or a > > > > > connection between it and the > ignition switch is > > > bad. Most > > > > > likely an > > > > > open resistor. As for putting in a > points system > > > instead of > > > > > electronic, you are free to do as > you please, but in > > > my > > > > > opinion, it is > > > > > a definite step back into the stone > age. There is no > > > computer > > > > > involved > > > > > in the ignition on that car yet.Just > a simple > > > amplifier. > > > >
That?s part of the reason I can?t figure this out in the on position the test light dose light. Leading me to believe the coil is getting electric in the on position. So then why dose it die? I have even gone so far as to supply 12 volts through my test light to the coil to be certain the coil is hot when it is in the on position. Very confusing. Is their a control box or some other component involved here? I am to the point I have run out of ideas. The guy at the salvage yard said to look in the wire loom down the steering column to see if a wire is broken or shorted. I have been given a lot of poor advice as to what it isn?t. I am hoping to find someone on these boards who knows what it is . You at least made sense.
Are you CERTAIN it is lack of spark? I'd almost be betting the fuel pump is shutting down if you have power to the coil with the key in the run position. I don't have a diagram for the fuel pump system around any more. Is this critter injected, or carbureted?
"user441" wrote: > On 2 Apr 2005 22:12:15 -0500, mccreadys4 > wrote: > > >"user441" wrote: > > > On 2 Apr 2005 10:33:29 -0500, mccreadys4 > > > < snipped-for-privacy@AutoForumz.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > If your engine has what I think it has for ignition, > the > > > distributor > > > has 2 wires going into it (yellow and black IIRC), > one > > > connected to > > > the + side of the coil, and one to the - side. > Inside the > > > distributor > > > is a "module" with 2 connectors - "C" and "B". The > "B" side > > > connects > > > to the coil positive, which is connected to the > battery > > > through the > > > ignition switch , and in most cases a ballast > resistor while > > > in the > > > run position. When in the crank position, some > ignition > > > switches have > > > an IGN2 position, while other vehicles have an "R" > connector > > > on the > > > starter solenoid, which both provide full cranking > voltage to > > > the coil > > > when cranking - bypassing the resistor. > > > > > > The module does EXACTLY what the points do in an old > > > "kettering" point > > > ignition. The "C" wire grounds the coil, and then > ungrounds it > > > to > > > produce a spark. > > > > > > With the ignition turned on, engine not cranking, > there should > > > be > > > something like 8.5 volts, more or less, at the coil > +, and > > > little or > > > no voltage on the coil - (less than 1 volt, anyway). > When the > > > engine > > > is cranked, the voltage at the coil + should be > within a > > > couple tenths > > > of battery voltage(when cranking this should be > between aprox > > > 9.5 and > > > 12). > > > > > > As the engine fires when cranked, it's pretty > obvious this > > > voltage is > > > not your problem. > > > > > > Now, the NON CRANKING ignition voltage - don't just > trust a > > > high > > > impedence digital voltmeter. Put a test light from > the coil + > > > to > > > ground - it MUST light. If it does not, the ballast > resistor > > > or the > > > circuit feeding it is dead. > > > >"user441" wrote: > > > > > On 29 Mar 2005 13:04:11 -0500, > mccreadys4 > > > > > > < snipped-for-privacy@AutoForumz.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > >"user441" wrote: > > > > > > > On 28 Mar 2005 > 16:15:50 -0500, > > > mccreadys4 > > > > > > > > > > < snipped-for-privacy@AutoForumz.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I am > working on a 91 dodge > > > colt. The car will > > > > > run as long as > > > > > > > I hold > > > > > > > >the key in > the start > > > position .As soon as I > > > > > let the key > > > > > > > return to the > > > > > > > >on > position the car dies. > > > What might this be? > > > > > also is their a > > > > > > > older > > > > > > > >points > distributer for the > > > 4 cyl mitsubishi > > > > > motor that would > > > > > > > > >interchange ? I would love > > > to get away from > > > > > this computer > > > > > > > junk. :?: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IIRC there is a > ballast resistor on > > > that coil. If > > > > > so, it is > > > > > > > shot or a > > > > > > > connection between > it and the > > > ignition switch is > > > > > bad. Most > > > > > > > likely an > > > > > > > open resistor. As > for putting in a > > > points system > > > > > instead of > > > > > > > electronic, you are > free to do as > > > you please, but in > > > > > my > > > > > > > opinion, it is > > > > > > > a definite step back > into the stone > > > age. There is no > > > > > computer > > > > > > > involved > > > > > > > in the ignition on > that car yet.Just > > > a simple > > > > > amplifier. > > > > > > > > > > > >If this car has a resistor > I don?t see it at > > > the coil. The > > > > > coil stays > > > > > >hot according to my test > light . I am > > > wondering about the > > > > > starter > > > > > >relay? It makes a lot of > clicking and the car > > > seems to die > > > > > right after > > > > > >the key is released from > the start position > > > and the relay > > > > > makes it?s > > > > > >last click. > > > > > >As for the points change > being a step back , > > > If I could go > > > > > back 2 > > > > > >steps I might have a > chance of understanding > > > what the heck is > > > > > going on > > > > > >! All this new stuff > that?s supposed to be so > > > great seems to > > > > > keep me > > > > > >here. If this car had > points I would have her > > > running right > > > > > now and > > > > > >wouldn?t need HELP!! > > > > > >Thanks mike :roll: > > > > > If it had points it could STILL have > the same > > > problem (many > > > > > did) > > > >
I thought of that also so I hard wired the fuel pump , still no go . as long as I hold the key to the start position , I could rev the bendix right off the starter. let go of the key and it will die, I can still here the pump and the coil is still hot. :roll:
I just had a similar problem with my '92 colt. It has the distributer/coil combo that pokes out of the left side of the head. The fix in my case was a new mass air flow sensor AND a new rotor. It would not run with either of the old parts. The book says that if the engine runs while cranking and then dies it may be the fuel pump relay. This was not the problem in my case. Also, check the connector that goes into the distributer housing. The one that if loose will fall straight out of the housing.
"Eric R Snow" wrote: > On 29 Mar 2005 13:04:11 -0500, mccreadys4 > wrote: > > >"user441" wrote: > > > On 28 Mar 2005 16:15:50 -0500, mccreadys4 > > > < snipped-for-privacy@AutoForumz.com> wrote: > > > > > > >I am working on a 91 dodge colt. The car will > run as long as > > > I hold > > > >the key in the start position .As soon as I > let the key > > > return to the > > > >on position the car dies. What might this be? > also is their a > > > older > > > >points distributer for the 4 cyl mitsubishi > motor that would > > > >interchange ? I would love to get away from > this computer > > > junk. :?: > > > > > > IIRC there is a ballast resistor on that coil. If > so, it is > > > shot or a > > > connection between it and the ignition switch is > bad. Most > > > likely an > > > open resistor. As for putting in a points system > instead of > > > electronic, you are free to do as you please, but in > my > > > opinion, it is > > > a definite step back into the stone age. There is no > computer > > > involved > > > in the ignition on that car yet.Just a simple > amplifier. > >
This one has the coil separate from the distributor. It?s not going to be a problem with the fuel in any way, Not pump or injectors. This must be an electrical thing. As I have been told the coil and distributor have nothing to do with the computer , Then mass air flow shouldn?t be hooked into the coil. I tell you this is just junk. If I can find a distributor that uses points and will fit the Block I can make this car run. Dose anyone know of a points distributor that might fit this 4cyl mitsubishi Block? Did the older datsun or Toyota? run a mitsubishi? And if so which might fit the block? :?:
The fuel injector pump is controlled by the computer through a relay. If this is not working correct the car may act the way you see, according to the manual. If you think the problem is power missing from the coil after the key switches from the start position then why don't you eliminate the ignition switch? Just wire from the positive post on the battery to the coil. As far as switching to points type ignition a better choice would be to find a module that's made to eliminate points in a points type ignition and replace your module with that one. Make sure it's triggered the same as yours. Also, make sure the computer is not varying your timing. If it is, then any replacement ignition needs to be isolated from the computer. Points type ignition, while simple, is less reliable than electronic. I suggest that if you absolutely have to replace the ignition with a popints type then go to the wreckers and look at older mitsubishi distributors. I doubt you'll find one though. ERS
If you are hell bent on installing points, look for an older dodge colt or Hyundai pony or excell. They all used Mitsu stuff, as they were mitsu engines. Toyota used Nippondenso,and most nissans were Hitachi.
Bet if the critter was within 60 miles of me it would be running in less than 2 hours, including driving time.
What do you think it is? Car puzzles have always intrigued me. I have had two cars now that had bad rotors that were very hard to diagnose. The latest my '92 colt. The first was an '85 (I think) mazda GLC. IT would run only with the ignition way advanced. When idling at close to the proper timing it would die when you gave it the gas. With a timing light on the plug wire it would flash at idle and go out when the gas was pressed. Way advanced it would run and the timing light would trigger at all rpm. Putting in a new rotor, the second one, fixed the problem. The first one I put in didn't fix the problem. So the old one failed, the first new one failed, and the second new one fixed the problem. Thinking I must have fixed the problem by something other than the rotor, like maybe getting some dirt out of the way or something, I put the first rotor back in and the problem returned. And replacing the first new one with the second new one fixed the problem again. ERS
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