Hemi Challenger

Page 6 of 7  
Joe wrote:


I just buy it by the case. If I have a choice I'll choose Havoline more times than not but I just want to be SAE certified.

I don't think the hot weather is as big a concern mainly because most engines are engineered to run at 180-200 degrees anyway. In very cold weather at startup the engine will run for a period of time without proper lubrication especially with regular oil being extremely viscous at near zero temperatures. Most of an engine's wear occurs during this period. Synthetics have much better flow characteristics at low temperatures so the engine runs less time without oil at the bearings etc. just after startup.

Yes, it is. Especially, considering how well made today's engine are in most vehicles. With just the most basic of maintenance they can last 150k-200k miles or longer.

It is the 4.0L V-6. IMO, that is one durable and very good performing engine. To have as many miles as it does and not use any oil between changes it quite amazing to me. The oil level on the dipstick doesn't drop any between 3,000 miles oil changes.
Transmissions are where the hot climates have a big impact. Heat degrades transmission fluid very quickly. Down where you live I would change transmission fluid/filter every 25k miles.
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All true, but my biggest worry is idling in rush hour with the a/c running full and it's 93 out. The temp gauge creeps up just a bit, so it's peace of mind to know that synth might help a bit more than dino. Could all be in my mind, but I'm willing to pay a few dollars extra for the synth just for that peace of mind.

The MPV is up past 107k now and it's running great. Transmission is still holding up very well also. BTW, the 3.0 is a SOHC. And it's RWD to boot. :)

Same with the MPV 3.0. Don't have to add oil in between changes. Now, the Mustang's a different story... ;)

I've been running around 30k between transmission fluid/filter changes with no problems. The MPV still shifts nice and crisp at WOT and it runs right up to red line. Around town is nice and mellow, just like it should be.
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Joe wrote:

Using synthetics can't hurt. It is better than regular oil.

I am amazed at just how well made the vehicles are today. Even the bottom of the barrel is yards above the best ones of 15-20 years ago.

The 302 was an engine from another era when tolerances were much sloppier. Mine is the same way. If I run it hard it would need up to a quart between changes and it was that way since it was new. This is another reason that the 5.0L engines need regular oil changes because the slop between the pistons and cylinder walls contaminate the oil more than a tighter engine.

Changing every 30k miles should be fine. Just keep the transmission fluid nice and pink.
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wrote:

The added cost is miniscule considering the peace of mind. Hell, we'd blow the entire savings for the year in one night out to the bar. ;)

And it's a '96. That platform was the same one used on the 929 back then if you recall.

Yeah, tell me about it! You know, it's amazing too - the difference between my '93 5.0 and the '96 MPV. The '96 is a nice, tight, high- revving SOHC, and the 5.0 is, well, a 5.0. ;)

Yes, that nice, cherry pink is good. ;)
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Joe wrote:

...are we still talking about transmission fluid?
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Michael Johnson wrote:

Heh, Amsoil 20w50 racing oil is the color of ATF. And I learned from and old engineer/engine builder that you can tell a good bit about your oil by squeezing it between your fingers.
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Michael Johnson wrote:

If you have a good filter there should be no need to flush any contaminates and a simple drain and refill isn't much of a flush. I did flush my Mustang when I changed to synthetic, or I should say real synthetic. The crap left behind by 5 years of Castrol GTX was truely astonishing.

Now riddle me this. If you insist on changing the motor oil at 3-4k miles, why are you comfortable with changing the ATF at 40k with no time limit? ATF is put through just as rigorous usage if not worse than the engine oil is and I've seen ATF described as "The most complex compound fluid used in any automotive application." Also consider the filtering (or general lack there of) done in an auto trans. Most I've seen consist of a felt like substance similar to a bypass filter but are way smaller in surface area and you always have a lot more metal filings in a trans than you do in an engine.
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WindsorFox wrote:

I'm referring to regular oil, not synthetics. Any oil picks up all sorts of chemical compounds that are detrimental to bearings, cylinder walls etc. I'm not convinced that any one filter can get rid of all of them over a year's time. Maybe they do. I think the most sure way of getting rid of them is to replace the oil altogether.

I don't change it on a scheduled regimen because it is very easy to look at transmission fluid to tell it is slightly burned. Once the fluid has reached this point it gets changed. If it doesn't have a burned look it is good to go for awhile longer. I had less than 10k miles on a transmission oil change when the engine overheated from a bad thermostat. It got changed because again because of the overheating of the engine affecting the transmission fluid slightly. Unlike engine oil the transmission fluid doesn't get residuals from the combustion process so unless it overheats it can stay stable for quite a while. Once it gets too hot though it needs to be replaced.
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There is NO COMBUSTION going on in your automatic transmission, the contaminations involved is orders of magnitude less...

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wrote:

No combustion, but lots of friction and more wear than in an engine. The mechanism is also orders of magnatude more sensitive to contamination, with the clearances in the valve bodies being EXTREMELY close. Not as critical on today's electronic transmisssiona as on the old "hydraulic brain" but still critical.
There is also a LOT of heat involved, which causes oxidation of the fluid, just like combustion. You definitely have less acid production and dilution - but it is, as I have repeated several times, still CRITICAL.

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My Name Is Nobody wrote:

I disagree on the magnitude.
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OK, one order of magnitude...
After all many automatic transmissions go the life of the automobile they are in, often well over 100,000 miles and NEVER have their automatic transmission fluid changed. You cannot get away with that with the engine oil...

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wrote:

I'll agree 100%, with one addition. Use decent oil.Use heavy enough oil for the conditions. 5W20 is not heavy enough for high speed high temperature running. In ANY engine. I don't care what the manual says. 5W20 oil is for C.A.F.E. and notheing more. Extended oil changes are a product of consumer legislation - an engine must last through warranty on the reduced oil change schedule published.
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Michael Johnson wrote:

Land fill?? Are you supposed to do that?? Good lord what kind of oil and filter are you getting for less than $10? I have to admit I havn't looked but that seems awfully cheap even at Walmart prices. The remote oil filter kit was about $120, but totally worth it to me. Now I will admit that to save money on extended drains you have to drive a lot of miles. Imagine the difference if you drove enough that you had to change your oil every month. What I do for my habits and what I drive is over kill but I still only do one change a year. Also I would only spend about $55 if I only had 5 quarts and one filter.
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WindsorFox wrote:

Our landfill has a large tank that the oil gets dumped in and they empty it regularly. It doesn't get mixed in with the rest of the garbage. They also take used batteries and other household liquids. For my needs the cheap oil/filter route has proven to work well. The nearly 200k trouble free miles on my Explorer is a testament that it works. There are sales about every weekend for oil filters of one brand or another (sometimes under $2 each). Buying oil by the case at discount stores is the best way to get the lowest price per quart. It isn't hard to make DIY oil changes for dirt cheap. Many local shops will do it for around $20.
I'm not saying your setup doesn't work. Frankly, I just don't know one way or the other. That $120 you spend to get the system in the car covers me for three years of oil changes and the amount you pay for the annual oil/filter change probably covers me for the year too. IMO, there are very few circumstances that require the type of system you have installed. It looks to be more of a novelty thing than a practical one. Like I said, I'm not saying you are crazy for using it as it probably works for your use. I also don't think it delivers any practical benefit, cost wise or from an engine longevity aspect, for the overwhelming majority of auto owners.
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Michael Johnson wrote:

Right, I also have very large, very expensive stereo equipment, which certainly isn't necessary. And in reality with the dual filter and Amsoil or Donaldson filters I would most likely get just as good of service form Mobil 1 or Havolin, I just prefer the better stuff. You should spring for an oil analysis once JFTHOI just to see what it says. Depending in the quality of your filters you may be shocked to see that it's as good as it was when it came out the bottle.
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WindsorFox wrote:

I have received all the analysis I need from my Explorer's odometer and oil dipstick. They both tell me that the inexpensive oil and filters I use are working just fine. ;)
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Michael Johnson wrote:

I meant just once to see what it says. You would find it interesting regardless of the report.
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Michael Johnson wrote:

You're right Chrysler had one in the 60s. Must be a huge conspiracy holding it back.
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Tony D. wrote:

Where did I mention anything about a conspiracy?
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