Re: Why does the auto industry turn out such crap??

That brings to mind all the sludged up Toyota engines.


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And the Honda transmissions.
So let's see: Toyota screws up once. Honda screws up once.
GM, Ford, and Chrysler have developed screwing up to an institutional art. Virtually everything they have done for 30 years has been a major screw-up, from the top down.
Yeah. Toyota screwed up once. OK.
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wrote:

Please. This is total crap. Toyota screws up all the time. Back in 2007 Toyota led the industry in recalls. The new Turdra is one huge screw up - broken camshafts, defective transmissions, pick-up boxes so weak you cannot leave the tailgate open. Or my SO's RAV4 - the worst crusie control I have ever used. It is unusable at certain speeds. How about all the ball joint failures on trucks from a coupkle of years back - these fauilures killed people. How about the rotten egg smelling catalytic converters? How about the Corollas with failing rear suspensions. The list goes on. For some unknown reason, Toyota seems to get a free ride when they build crap. And there is the whole Toyota culture when it comes to problems - deny, lie, deny...repeat as necessary.
Ed
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On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 13:36:14 -0500, "C. E. White"

At what speeds? Cruise is NOT to be used in urban areas at 30 mph.

I replaced an average of better than one per year over the 6 years I owned that heap.
How about the rotten egg

High sulphur gasoline is not a conveerter problem. A rich mixture can contribute to it, but the main problem is BAD GAS. ANd the problem OST DEFINITELY was not limited to Toyota.

I think you mean the tercels in 1981? EVERYBODY had rust problems back then. ANd as soon as they realized there was a problem (which was only a problem in the "rust belt" with high road salt use) they recalled the affected vehicles for testing and remediation - or replacement if rust was evident.
I did several hundred of them.

GM putting 6 cyl tranny parts in 8 cyl trannys. The GM 3.8 V6 intake problems. The GM 2.8/3.1 intake problems. The GM 307 camshaft problems. The GM 3.4 liter "time bomb" The Vega These are just a few LONG TERM problems GM got away with.
When Toyota screws up they fix it in relatively short order.
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Try 60 mpn on an open highway.

OK so some Pontiacs are just as bad as some Toyotas - sort of my point. Toyota's have problems, just like vehicles from other manufacturers.

But Toyotas seemed especially prone to this problem and Toyota seemed the least willing to address it with changes. The definitely followed the standard Toyota line - "It's not Toyota's fault, you are doing something wrong."

I did't say GM vehicles don't sometimes have problesm. I was merely pointing out that Toyotya does also. And don't forget, for many years we never saw "first generation" Toyota models. The bugs were often worked out in other market. Since Toyota has been selling more US specific models, we are seeign a lot more problems.

Yeah right. It took NHTSA 3+ years to force Toyota to "voluntarily" recall the trucks with the bad ball joints. Toyota "voluntarily" initiated a recall after NHTSA sent them a letter saying they were about to issue a mandatory recall (something NHTSA almost never does - usually manufacturers roll over as soon as an inviestigation indicates there is a problem). And to this day, Toyota (and Toyota fanatics) try to blame all the sludge problems on Customers (while never exaplinaing why only certain Toyota models have the problem).
OK, clearly, I didn't quite get the Toyota mantra right. Instead of "deny, lie, deny...repeat as necessary" I should have said "deny, lie, deny, lie, say everyone else is worse, deny some more, try to hide the problem, claim it wasn't Toyota's fault, say GM is a lot worse, claim it was the Customer's fault, deny again, repeat as necessary." Oh what a feeling, moving formward, this changes everything, etc, etc, etc.
In my memory no auto company has been as successful as Toyotra in scamming the public. If I was running GM, the first thing I would do is hire Toyota's propoganda minister.
Just to be clear - I don't think Toyota vehicles are particaulrly bad, I don't think they are particualrly good either. Some or good, some are bad, most are mediocre. I'd be driving a Tacoma today, if they weren't priced thousands more than a Nissan Frontier.
Ed
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On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 08:38:49 -0500, "C. E. White"
Or my SO's RAV4 - the

Then something was wrong, and it was fixable. It is NOT a common complaint.

In the '80s and early '90s in particular, Chevy and Chrysler had REAL problems with the rotton egg smell - and it was significantly worse in some geographic areas than others - depending on what refinery the fuel came from. We had several that would stink like crazy on Esso (EXXON) and Texaco, and not at all on shell, for instance.

Was I right? Are you talking about a 1981 product?????

Sometimes? Cripes, it's been one thing after another, with GM sweeping it under the rug for DECADES of production.

OK - as for the ball joints - Why was GM not forced to recall the TransSport/Lumina/et al? The balljoints on those peices of scrap failed like clockwork. I see a lot of cars on the side of the road in pothole season with the lower ball joints separated - and come to think of it, I can't remember a Toyota!!.
A quick GOOGLE shows ball joint recalls on Jeep, Avenger, RX8,Dakota, Durango,Prowler, Kenworth trucks (that's scary) with TRW parts, Mitsubishi Eclipse, Prowler, Volvo, replacement MOOG joints for Honda/Accura, - ant that's just RECENT RECALLS. Even the venerable K Car had ball-joint recalls.
As for the sludging? It is a PROVEN FACT that vehicles serviced on the "severe service" schedule did not have the problem in any numbers, if at all. Same was true on Chrysler 3.7 engines.
The AMERICAN GOVERNMENT pretty well mandated the extended drain intervals which werer a large part of the problem. (and users of synthetic oil, following the extended drain intervals also did not have the problem)

I see a very VERY strong bias. I spent 25 years actively involved in the automotive service industry. I've spent most of the rest of my life closely involved. I can tell you, without GM cars on the road, a large number of mechanics would be out of a job. For many years Ford and Chrysler were right up there with them in the "screw-up" Department. BOTH have improved significantly faster than GM.
I'd buy a Chrysler today. I'm currently driving a 2003 PT. I'd buy a Ford today - wife currently drives a 1996 Mystique I'd buy a Honda today - daughter just bought a 2008 Civic. - not convinced it was the best value for the dollar, but nobody else maid a small 2dr coupe (not hatch) that was worth looking at - certainly not GM's offering!!!!!
I'd even buy a Toyota. I've owned 2 in the past and they were perhaps the most dependable vehicles I've owned - and I've owned 25 or more at last count and driven countless other "company cars"

Scamming? GM's done a good job of that since the sixties.

Talk about Nissans and ball joints - saw TWO on the side of the road in the last week - 10 days. Both kneeling in prayer to the tow-truck gods.
I wouldn't buy a late model Nissan but if it came down to a Nissan or a Mitsu, the nissan would still win.
That said, that's the only REAL reason I'm not driving Toyotas the lat 10 years or so. I do NOT buy new vehicles, and Toyotas hold their value too well. The only reason I bought that darn pontiac was because I could buy them for such a good price. Six years old they were pretty well giving them away, while I was paying $6000 for a 6 year old Chrysler or Ford, and $9000 or more for a Toyota.
I'm back with $6000 Chryslers and Fords.
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On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 10:14:01 -0500, "Mike Hunter"

drains that did it.
If the oil was changed every 5000Km (3000 miles) there would be NO sludge. Same as with the Chryco engines.
Unlike the Chryco trannies where they had electrical/electronic gremlins.
Even then, if the fluid was changed regularly and with the RIGHT fluid, and the gremlins did not show up, the trannies asted a LOT longer than those that were not serviced.
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