Who was it who mentioned Fram oil filters and dropping oil pressure?

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Who was it in the Subaru group that mentioned my low oil pressure might be caused by my using Fram oil filters?
There may be something to this.
I picked up yet another 1992 Grand Something-or-other (in this case, a
Grand Caravan. The last two were V'gers...). It has 239,000 miles on it. I got it on eBay for $150 and had to go 135 miles to pick it up. To make a long story short, we had to cut and crimp one of the rear brake lines to get the thing to move without emptying the brake cylinder, and the plan was to drive it within 100 miles from home and call AAA..."It blew a brake line!"
No need. The crimp held and the thing ran so well I drove it the entire way home! Of course, I told "Jane" to avoid highways, so it was 92 miles through Providence and back into Mass and on to home.
All the way the oil press. guage was about 1/2 way up the guage, occasionally dropping a little below on a 68 degree November day in the middle of Providence. Other than that, it stayed right around the halfway mark the entire trip.
Today I gave it a 'service', oil change, air filter and tranny juice and filter. I used a Fram TG oil filter since if you bought a jug (5 qts) of Valvoline oil you got the filter $2 off. Maybe it's just on the Subaru?
NOPE! After I changed the oil and took it for a test, the oil pressure guage had dropped a whole mark off halfway! I don't believe it!
I'm going to wait until the next nice day, pull the oil filter and put on something like a Wix. Never had that problem with either OEM or Wix filters, and Wix got high ratings from Consumer's Reports.
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It's a known problem on the orange Fram filters. The problem is the anti drainback valves don't work. How much it effects the engine will depend on the filter mounting and position. I have two old Ford trucks, both with straight six engines. "300 and 240". You cannot use those Fram filters on those engines unless you like starting up with no oil pressure. I knew about this before trying one, but I happened to get one free, so decided to try it. At first I thought it was ok. But I came back three hours later to go to the store and had no oil pressure. And this is on a fresh rebuilt engine with a new oil pump. Not some wore out beater. I couldn't get pressure, so i cut it off. Then I tried it again and finally got pressure going. I dumped that filter right there on the spot and replaced it with a Motorcraft FL1A which is what I normally use. Never had the problem again. I wouldn't use one of those filters if it were free. Total junk as far as the anti drain valves. I wouldn't use one on any other car either just due to the problems I had, no matter if the mounting position was a problem or not.
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I also had a Ford 300 six. Same problem. Changed to NAPA best filter ( I think this is made by Wix) Problem solved. WW
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snipped-for-privacy@wt.net wrote:

A Finnish magazine article from 1996 found no problems with any of the drainback valves tested, and Fram did not leak the most. Also how come you can blow into an orange Fram but not suck air from it? Money saving hint: doing that test in the store = free oil filter. :)
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wrote:

That's nice, but personal experience trumps a test any day. Time from cold start to oil pressure light going out on my old Dart, >5 sec. with a Fram filter. 1 sec. or less with a Wix filter. Guess which filter I've used ever since.
nate
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On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 10:45:25 -0800, N8N wrote:

Wix got rated very highly from CR, but AutoZone doesn't sell them. The CarQuest I used to work at (and got Wholesale from...) closed last year...they were turning the key to Lock when I went to get some parts for my Supra...there is another place that does have them. The Soob is due in a few hundred more miles....time for a Real World test!
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Hachiroku ハチロク wrote:

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On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 18:07:02 -0500, Steve Austin wrote:

Someone else mentioned that, but the guy who used to give me wholesale now works as the ass't manager at another parts store, and they have Wix filters, too. ;)
At CarQuest, we sold Wix branded filters, at about $5 per filter, and CarQuest filters, which were also Wix, at $3.99...wonder what the difference was...
(Other than $1, of course!)
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Hachiroku ハチロク wrote:

"Store brand" stuff made by a known manufacturer is often cheaper for exactly the same product. The mfr can tool up for a large lot, stamp it for the store/customer, ship it FOB, and make their profit on short-term volume.
I used to work for a school-supply company back in the days when "spirit duplicators" (read Ditto brand) were the only answer for multiple copies.
We sold Ditto (part of Bell & Howell at the time) duplicators and Ditto's own brand of fluid (basically methyl alcohol with some additives). We sold the same stuff (from Ditto) under our own brand (with it marked as "Made by Ditto for ___") for about 50 to 75% of the Ditto brand, depending on lot size to our customer. Big school districts would buy thousands of gallons per year....
BTW, this was also decent degreaser, fair to good "stove fuel", and also a fairly decent "gas line antifreeze". I used to pour about a quarter gallon in the 50 gallon tank in the back of my truck every other fill.
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Tear one of each open and find out. They could be dramatically different, they might not be different at all. That's the whole thing about contract manufacturing. If the retailer goes to the manufacturer and asks for good, he gets good. If he asks for cheap, he gets cheap. --scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

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You are forgetting ALL oil filters have an internal pressure relief value.


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--
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On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 13:44:29 -0500, "Mike Hunter"

Carvair was a case in point. Filter bypass is in the filter base.
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snipped-for-privacy@wt.net wrote:

It's the Fram ExtraGuard filters (their low end product, orange) that has the problem with the anti-drainback valve.
From "http://people.msoe.edu/~yoderw/oilfilterstudy/oilfilters.html ":
"The rubber anti-drainback valve seals against the cardboard and frequently leaks, causing dirty oil to drain back into the pan. The bypass valves are plastic and are sometimes not molded correctly, which allows them to leak all the time. The stamped-metal threaded end is weakly constructed and it has smaller and fewer oil inlet holes, which may restrict flow. I had one of these filters fail in my previous car. The filter element collapsed and bits of filter and glue were circuilating through my system. The oil passge to the head became blocked and the head got so hot from oil starvation that it actually melted the vacuum lines connected to it as well as the wires near it."
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SMS wrote:

That story is not believable. Here is why it is not believable: If you read the warranty from any filter manufacturer they will cover damage if such an event would occur with their filter.     So why didn't this guy get a replacement engine from Fram?
    Because what he claims caused his engine damage never happened.
    What probably happened is this guy ran his car low on oil and destroyed the engine. Rather than admit it was his own fault he creates this story which blames it on the bogey man. Others are more than willing to repeat the story as if it were truth.
    There are plenty of stories of people who use Fram filters for very long lived engines. The guy who puts 400K on an engine and maybe installs around 100 filters on that engine doesn't seem to ever run into a bad filter. But the guy who used a Fram filter just once in his entire life tells a story of how they destroy your engine. I'm sorry I just don't find that believable.
    If Fram filters disintegrate like this story claims - Why can't you come up with lots of cases where car manufacturers get Fram to pay for replacement engines? Or how about come up with just one case. I mean this pretty cut and dried - if they are at all prone to disintegrate wouldn't it surely show up on the one of millions of instances where low mileage new vehicles had a Fram filter installed?
-jim
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jim wrote:
<snip>

LOL, those warranties are all bogus. Just try proving that the damage was a direct result of the oil filter. Often it's latent damage that isn't apparent for tens of thousands of miles (or more) of start-ups with no oil caused by a crappy anti-drainback valve/
It's a similar issue with non-API certified oils where they guarantee to cover vehicle damage caused by the oil. Good luck proving that your early catalytic converter failure was caused by the high level of ZDDP in the oil.
What's ironic is that it's probably the same people throwing away money by doing 3K oil changes that are also buying the worst quality filters.
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SMS wrote:

That is what independent claims adjusters are for

Or maybe its just the bogey man out to get you.

No its not at all the same. Using non-certified products will void your warranty. If Fram filters disintegrate then the automakers would have literally thousands and thousands of claims against fram. There would be class action lawsuits. It wouldn't just be rumor and superstition on usenet.

The people I know who have the longest lived engines use Fram filters. I know a guy who bought a new GTO in the mid 60s when he got out of the service and still drives it today. He claims his secret is to change the filter every 2000 miles and change the oil every other filter change. The engine is pristine and never had a problem. Just about everything else on the car has been replaced or rebuilt. But you are right if you aren't going to be willing to deal with the rest of the car there is little point in doing the maintenance that keeps the engine running good that long.
-jim
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wrote:

In clean dry conditions with 2000 mile oil changes, using today's oils,many engines would live a very long life WITHOUT a filter - and in many cases longer than with a bad filter (no drainback dry-start issues)
Heck, my 1949 VW only had a cupshaped flyscreen and IT had something well over 200,000 MILES on it, in the hot, dusty, and humid (alternately) southern Zambia conditions. It had apparently had a valve job, but nothing else. (didn't have enough power to hurt itself, I always said) before I got it in 1973.
I only but a few thousand miles on it, around Livingstone, up to Choma and Macha, and one trip down to Chobe Botswanna
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snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

If you had bought a new vw bug in 1973 it would still not have had a filter for the oil. One thing it had that compensated for lack of filter besides the screen was an easy way to clean out the crud that settled in the bottom.
-jim

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wrote:

SOME of the crud. Didn't hold much oil either!!

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