It's not a fact and your account of one experience is hardly proof. The studies I have seen give the drain back valve on Fram a good rating. Your proof is one experience against millions. Any filter's drain back valve will leak if a piece of crud happens to prevent it from sealing. That possibility is most likely on a freshly rebuilt engine. And the drain back valve have nothing to do with the operating oil pressure, which was the topic of this thread.
The filter on the Soob and the Caravan are positioned so that when you remove them, they are full of oil. Yuck!
The Supra...often the filter is dry, even if you remove it shortly after turning off the engine. Not really recommended, since for some reasone Toyota has a penchant for placing them directly below the exhaust header...
jim...jim beam?...oh,brother...now infecting groups other than Honda?
Jesus ever let you put your finger in the holes in his hands, and your hand in his side?
Once more, for the fans on the West Coast...
1988 Supra. Bought in 2004. Oil changes every 3,000 miles since I have owned it. Approaching 30,000 miles since I bought it.
1989 Subaru GL coupe. Bought in 2007. Oil changes every 3,000 miles since I have owned it. Approaching 20,000 miles since I bought it.
1989 Mazda 626. Bought in 2006. Oil changes every 3,000 miles since I have owned it. Approaching 30,000 miles since I bought it.
1985 Toyota Corolla GTS. Bought in 1986 with 10,000 miles. Oil changes every 3,000 miles. Now has 259,810 miles. (that's 86 oil changes, all done by me) Hey! 86! I like that number!
1992 Dodge Caravan. Bought 2 weeks ago. Did an oil change. Will do an oil change every 3,000 miles as long as I own it.
2005 Scion tC. Bought in 2006 with 11,000 miles. Oil changes every 4,500 miles, since I use synthetic in this car. Approaching 20,000 miles since I bought it.
No, I do *NOT* analyze my oil. I just change it. Period. Every 3,000 miles. Except the Scion.
You have to remember that the filter that will remove the smallest particles will generally be the one which has the highest resistance to flow (smallest pore sizes).
Do you have any data that accurately describes what happens when particles of various small sizes are left in the oil? I dont. I have, like you I am sure, read that they are not desirable, but have never seen HARD data.
Everyone who's ever owned a car with an "upside down" oil filter knows that Fram ADBVs suck. They don't work more often than they do, or at least that was the case the last time I used one, 15 years ago.
If they can't manage to make something as simple as an ADBV work, that doesn't say a whole lot for their overall quality, and I don't feel the need to roll the dice with my engine when a better filter is easily available for the same price.
Someone else mentioned that, but the guy who used to give me wholesale now works as the ass't manager at another parts store, and they have Wix filters, too. ;)
At CarQuest, we sold Wix branded filters, at about $5 per filter, and CarQuest filters, which were also Wix, at $3.99...wonder what the difference was...
Your not going to find research and hard data on worn out clunkers like the one in the tale that started this thread.
Buying an old car changing the oil and putting a Fram filter on it happens all the time. And it is not that uncommon for the result to be a quickly clogged filter. Been there, done that myself. Now in my opinion the thing to do when that happens is to immediately change the oil again and put another Fram filter on. Why blame the filter for just doing its job? I mean how retarded do you have to be to think the problem is with the new filter and not the old worn out engine?
"Store brand" stuff made by a known manufacturer is often cheaper for exactly the same product. The mfr can tool up for a large lot, stamp it for the store/customer, ship it FOB, and make their profit on short-term volume.
I used to work for a school-supply company back in the days when "spirit duplicators" (read Ditto brand) were the only answer for multiple copies.
We sold Ditto (part of Bell & Howell at the time) duplicators and Ditto's own brand of fluid (basically methyl alcohol with some additives). We sold the same stuff (from Ditto) under our own brand (with it marked as "Made by Ditto for ___") for about 50 to 75% of the Ditto brand, depending on lot size to our customer. Big school districts would buy thousands of gallons per year....
BTW, this was also decent degreaser, fair to good "stove fuel", and also a fairly decent "gas line antifreeze". I used to pour about a quarter gallon in the 50 gallon tank in the back of my truck every other fill.
About as retarded as making a statement like the one above without reading the entire post.
If you'll look again, you'll see I didn't have that problem with the Supra with an "old, worn out engine" until I put a Fram oil filter on it. Prior to that I had been using Toyota filters, but ran out of filters on hand.
With the Toyota filters, the oil pressure had been about 1/2 mark on the gauge higher. I don't have much to go on with the Subaru, but the last oil change was done about 6 months before I bought it and it sat for 4 of those months. Oil pressure was good until I put on a Fram.
So, before you say something retarded yet again, why don't you just wait until I post an update after replacing the Soob and Caravan filters with another brand, and post the results?
I just find it funny that on three older cars, replacing the existing filter with a Fram resulted in lower oil pressures.
Still a meathead, I see. Good to know some things never change. Not really. It's just an old cliche.
It would be nice if, once in a while, you chimed in on a discussion where you actually added some value, instead of trying to make yourself look like the only person in the world who knows anything, and everyone else is just an idiot.
And I remember full well what my original post was concerning. I threw in the 3,000 miles to indicate when the next oil change might be, and also mentioned I was changing the oil in the Soob soon. But being myopic as you are, you focused on one thing and ran with it.
Why don't you go haunt a castle in Scotland or something?
For all you actually manage to add to a discussion, it would amount to about the same.
I'm not going to start this bullshit with you again like in the Honda group, or the last oil change discussion. Add something or just STFU. please.
You may well get higher pressure with a a filter that has less resistance. This is not unusual for any worn out engine that doesn't generate enough extra pressure to push the pressure relief valve open. That doesn't mean the other filter is better. One of the consequences of using the filters that don't filter as good is an accumulation of fines and more wear. The wear is the actual cause of the low oil pressure.
FRAG! I knew what I was thinking, but typed the exact opposite.
Base UP (as in a SBC and most other old school V-8s with an integral filter mount) is "normal." Base DOWN (e.g. slant-six, Porsche 944, old Ferrari V-12, etc.) *requires* an ADBV, either as part of the filter or part of the base.
Mine is not. It still runs as well today as it did in 2002 when I installed it. Which is like new I might add. No runs, no drips, no errors.. Except for when I tried to use a Fram filter and it clacked very loudly in protest. I didn't let it run long enough to hurt anything, and I never raised it off idle until I finally had pressure.
ating oil pressure,
I can round you up a whole boatload of people that have seen the same exact problem. This is a well known issue involving many people. It's not something I just made up to look stylish. I don't care what the "studies" say. They are not using them in the same applications and filter positions.
There have already been two others just in this thread alone that seem to be well aware of the problem besides me. Trust me, compared to the anti drain valve on the Motorcraft filter, the ones in regular orange Fram filters suck. Period. And I've proven to myself on my own vehicle. I've never seen the problem with any other filter on that engine. Only the Fram. Many others have proven it to themselves also. It's a common topic on the Ford truck forums I hang out on. But it's also a known problem with the Mopar slant six 229's. As far as the "dropping oil pressure", I'd say starting an engine when cold and waiting extended periods of time for *any* oil pressure would qualify. It's not anything one would normally miss being as the engine will be clacking like crazy. :( Think what you want, but you will never see me using a Fram filter again, even if they do work acceptably in many other applications. Which I'm sure they probably do.. They don't work in all of them though, and the other brands do. I know which line I'll be in and it won't be the one with the big "F" up at the window. :/
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