All filters are DESIGNED to conform to manufacturer's burst pressure specs. Doesn't mean every one off the line DOES. Poor quality control can make a compliant design into a total disaster - particularly if the design is to JUST conform to the specs.
That is evidence only that you are superstitious. It is not evidence that Fram filters are not built to manufacturers specification. If a Napa gold or a purolator or Wix blows under the same conditions the superstitious will blame it on a stuck regulator. It is only when it happens to a Fram that they blame it on the bogeyman.
If what you say were true you could have Fram put out business. But you don't have a shred of evidence. It's just all made up stories. Take a fram filter to the FTC and prove it doesn't meet design specs and they will shut them down. But can't prove a damn thing because its all hot air.
Yes it is the nature of ignorant and superstitious humans.
Its bullshit.
So file a complaint with the FTC. If there is even a tiny bit of truth to what you say, Fram is in big trouble. But everyone reading this knows you won't file cause there aint no truth at all to your statements. Its all just legend and folklore.
Where did I say it was BECAUSE that filter split that it was the last Fram filter I used????? Nowhere - that's where.
It just happens that trip co-incided with my changing employment from the general repair garage that used Fram to a Toyota dealership - where Putolator built Toyota branded filters were available to me at a good price - and Toyota used the same PH8 style filter the "leaning tower of power" used.
Actually, for a while, CMI (Canadian Motor Industries - Now Toyota Canada) was supplying japanese built filters, and I used them.
And the filter did NOT split. It just "blew off". Took the threads right out of the base plate. SHOULD have blown the gasket out first, but didn't
You've got a LOT of faith in a federal agency.
So you're saying that it's all hot air and no Fram filter has failed.
On what do you base that??
I don't think that I am ignorant I take it you have some medical qualifications to make that diagnosis. I am certainly not superstitious.
Some months ago I bought an espresso coffee machine. Top of the line model from a reputable manufacturer. An electronic component failed. The replacement (brand new straight out of the box) arrived friday. Setting it up today and it fails to produce any steam. Tomorrow it goes back. I don't think it would be ignorance or superstitious of me to tell friends and dissuade them from buying that brand.
When it comes to consumer products, often anecdotal evidence from users of the product, and reviews from individuals that tear down and evaluate the build quality, are all you have to go by. For oil filters there's no independent testing agency that runs around testing every model of filter from every manufacturer on every different vehicle that the filter fits.
Based on the teardowns of Fram filters, and based on extensive anecdotal evidence, the logical thing to do would be to play it safer by going with an OEM filter rather than risk using a Fram filter. Maybe all the reports of Fram filter failures are fiction, but those reports, combined with so many different evaluations by those that disassemble filters, make it probable that where there's so much smoke that there's probably fire.
You got the hot air part right. I have seen no evidence that Fram filters fail often enough to justify the hysteria you promote. If you buy a new car and use Fram filters on it and follow the car makers recommended service procedures, from the real evidence I have seen, you will have a statistically better chance of having your car run over by a bus than have it done in by the Fram filters.
You believe in what you think are facts without any real evidence to support them.
And yes I have authentic certified license to spot internet quacks. I downloaded it from the official international web site for study and identification of internet folklore and fiction.
-jim
I see what I see. If you paid attention you might too.
The FTC for whatever reason seems to be intensely interested in claims manufacturer make about automobile related products. They seem to think it is extremely important to police the after market products for cars. However, there power is pretty much limited to determining if advertising claims are valid.
It has been my observation that if anyone attempts to market a product in the USA that is related to the automobile you had better be prepared with a mountain of evidence to support any advertising claims that you make about that product. If Fram filters are not able to prove that their claim that they meet or exceed all the engine builders specifications for their filters those filters will soon be removed from the store shelves. Or at the very least they will be forced to stop making the claims. And if that were to happen you would have actual real world evidence that I would believe rather than just internet folk tales that I find unconvincing.
File a complaint if you think there is a case to be made. This is not that complicated. It is not as if it takes a rocket scientist to hydrostatic test and determine the burst pressure of an oil filter.
I think you could go down to your local Walmart and take every single one of the hundreds of Fram filters they have in stock and you wouldn't be able to find a single one that is out of compliance.
The manufacturing sector in the USA may be in decline, but it is not yet as broken as your imagination has conceived it to be. This is just an oil filter we are talking about. It is not that complicated.
-jim
No and that would not be very intelligent way to manage Quality Assurance. You don't need an 1980 air-cooled VW or a 1972 Dodge Dart and
30 below temperatures to hydrostatic test the burst pressure of a filter. Burst test are in fact done by independent laboratories.Teardowns by whom? Are you talking about idiots on the internet cutting filters open? Or are you talking about the Quality Assurance department (that every engine manufacture has), which carefully examine all the engines that get replaced under warranty and sent back to the manufacturer?
In some cases the OEM filter is made by Fram. Did your internet sources for folklore fail to inform you of that?
Yes and that is exactly what an hysterical true believer would imagine. But where is there any believable evidence? The only thing I see evidence of is a phenomena I call folklore and mass hysteria.
The fact is that millions of Fram filters are used on engines under warranty. Some of those engines do fail and manufacturers do replace those failed engines and all engine makers do post-mortems to determine what causes failures. So if there really was any smoke or fire it would show up somewhere at some time in that process. But that is not where the evidence is coming from. The so called evidence is always somebody with an old beater that has deluded himself and is now trying to convince others that a Fram filter is the bogeyman out to get his engine.
-jim
There are several serious problems with your tale. The Fram filter folklore says the cans are the weak link and they blow apart. So you are contradicting what others have claimed. The force on the threads due to the mechanical advantage is really quite high just from tightening the filter by hand. You are suggesting the shell of the filter is really a whole lot stronger than what others have claimed.
Another problem with your story is you also have already related in the past posts how this engine clattered on cold starts. A known reason for such clatter is a sticky valve in the engine at the outlet of the filter that doesn't open until the oil pressure builds up and finally pop it open. This new tale you are now telling suggests that when it gets down to 45 below the valve which eventually opens at higher temps can stay permanently stuck. At any rate I don't see any evidence that clearly points to a defective filter. All the evidence I see points to an incompetent diagnosis of the problem.
-jim
You just reminded me of a weird problem I had a couple of years back. I picked up a Motorcraft Filter from the local garage. When I tried to install it, I just could not get the threads started on the filter adapter. I finally gave up trying and took a good look at the filter - it wasn't threaded! The shop gave me a replacement. I've never seen this before or since.
Ed
You're right, Frams are the bestest filters ever. We believe you. Now will you STFU already?
nate
Those are press on filters. Just put your scissors jack under them.
I, for one, consider it pathetic and quite telling how you (including some others) intentionally, purposefully and repeatedly attempt to misrepresent his easily understood stance and remarks despite his, unlike your own, rational approach and patient spoonfed explanations. You clearly "doth protest too much".
No, you are the one who is misunderstanding.
His stance is "Frams meet manufacturer's specifications."
Mine is "Frams have the highest rate of failures as measured by all metrics to which I have access, and they appear to be a cheap, shoddily made product. Therefore I don't buy them."
The two may not even be mutually exclusive, and to be abused for a viewpoint like mine is ignorant and assaholic.
nate
I'll tell you waht, Jim. You are free to believe as you like, and to use Fram filters on your vehicles. Nobody's forcing you to forgo your "orange" fix. The rest of us are free to use anything BUT Fram if we so wish. For you, it appears Fram Filters are either a religion or a political party (not that American politics much differentiates) and you have decided you don't want to hear the facts, your mind's already made up.
If it hasn't anything to do with automotive safety or emission controls, they are less "rabid" in their enforcement.
And all engines that get replaced are sent back to the manufacturer to be torn down???? NOT!!! Mabee one in 10, or one in 50, or every one that dies a particular death after they decide they just MIGHT have a quality problem. Certainly not anywhere close to every failure.
Name me a single OEM filter currently confirmed to be made by Fram and specify which of the numerous Fram models it actually is.
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