1998 Grand Caravan

Page 13 of 13  


Damn Max, are you ever going to let this one die. There is no need for a load test here, no matter how hard you try and spin it.

Complete and utter nonsense. The starter is completely current dependent and if a small load of around 10A can pull it down so quickly, what do you think the starter, pulling around 20 times that load is going to do to the voltage of that battery. Yea, those injectors will fire real well at around 8 volts or less.

Again, wrong. All that needs to be done is to measure the voltage at the battery under load which is NOT the same thing as a load test.

While true, we already know that the battery is not the problem.

Measured battery voltage under the load of the device.

Nope, it is not. Not enough current for a valid LOAD test or even enough time according to you.

And it wasn't a load test either. Jeez, what an idiot!

You always load test the battery because you don't fully understand what you are doing and it seems to work. Pretty much like blood letting reduced fevers so they did it out of habit without actually understanding how or why.

Simple yes, necessary here, not at all!
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Except that no matter how you spin it, at very least a cobbled load test was done. YOU know it, because you made reference to it.
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Max

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TBone wrote:

http://www.toolsource.com/ost/product.asp?sourceid=overturebattery%5Ftest&dept%5FidP0&pf%5Fid 095&mscssid=X0JEU6MD7P9K9KLGDBJM2VJPUSAM2889
Isn't it amazing how the same "bad" battery is supposed to drop enough voltage to trip the 10A inverter off, fail a load test (by that, I mean the true load test that you're talking about - not the super-light load test of the 10A inverter), and yet start the engine with no hint of a problem? I'd like to see the math on that one.
Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
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I already went through how it could happen, and often does. Take a look at back posts.
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Max

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LOL, often does my ass. While the starter may still crank the engine, it will be much slower and would probably not allow the injectors to fire.
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On Mon, 3 Apr 2006, Bill Putney wrote:

Here it is: With a 10A load, we assume a voltage drop of approx 1 Volts. Thus, we can approximate the internal resistance at .1 ohms. Now, when starting the car, we can assume a current of 250A, which would lead to a voltage drop of 25V. Since this is greater than the nominal 12V output of the battery, we actually have a battery voltage of -13V (12V - 25V). -13V is clearly sufficient to start the car.
Even though the voltage is negative, because the current passes through both stator and rotor windings, the starter always turns in the same direction.
That was easy!
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Whoever wrote:

Ha ha! I love it! Ingenious! :)
Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
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Hmmm... I'm not sure whether I'm despised here or not. I don't have an engineering degree, but I am in Tau Beta Pi....
--
Joseph J. Pfeiffer, Jr., Ph.D. Phone -- (505) 646-1605
Department of Computer Science FAX -- (505) 646-1002
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Joe Pfeiffer wrote:

But you have a Ph.D., which is even worse than an engineering degree!! However, we'll accept you as an honorary member anyway. :-)
Matt
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Budd Cochran wrote:

Whatever. He reminds me of a 'friend' I had in high school - a bunch of us were standing around one day, we see a cop sitting beside the road with a radar gun in a 35 mph zone, and this friend - let's call him Bubba - says to us "Hey guys - I can make that cop behave any way I want. Watch this - I'll bet I can make him pull me over and give me a ticket!" So Bubba hops on his Honda bike and goes flying by the cop at 50 mph with his middle finger held high in the air.
Sure enough the cop pulls him and gives him a ticket. After it was over, Bubba comes over to us all grinning and acting the fool and says "See! I told ya I could make that cop do what I wanted him to! What a real idiot he was that he allowed me to make him do that!" And we're all standing around going "Bubba - you're really the idiot!"
Another time, Bubba says "Hey guys - that man over there is so dumb - I bet I can make him punch me in the nose!" So he goes over to the guy and says something about the guy's sister. Then Bubba comes back with his hand cupped under his nose dripping blood, and says "See - what'd'I tell ya! What an idiot that guy was!"
Actually I made those stories up, but they illustrate the point.

In all candidness, Budd, I don't think anyone could really follow your train of thought in that post. We were giving you the benefit of the doubt and making our best attempt at making the proverbial silk purse out of a sow's ear by responding to it and trying to bring it back into reality. I don't think it was a coincidence that Matt and I guessed our way to the same conclusions about what the hell you were trying to say in relation to the real world about levers, gear ratios, and transmission efficiency. And of course your buddy Bubba - err - I mean - CAVHBC decides to make a word game out of it. You may in fact have had a valid point, but your poor way of expressing it and relating it to reality was hardly coherent. That's the straight up.

So let me see if I follow your logic here: (a)The great philosophers, scientists, Wright bros., etc. of antiquity did not have modern engineering education. (b) Budd Cochran, CAVHBC, and Max Dodge do not have a modern engineering education. (c) Therefore, since Budd Cochran, CAVHBC, and Max Dodge also don't have a modern engineering education, they are all great philosophers, scientists, and possibly even the Wright bros. themselves (only problem - there are only two Wright bros. of Kitty Hawk fame).
While you guys are signing up for your English and "engineering" classes (don't be frustrated - you can start out at a junior or commnuity college, and if you can keep up and maintain your grades, you can transfer to a 4 year degree college in a short while - just keep at it), check out the courses in logic - you can probably fit them into your electives.

I guess that's one of those things where you had to be there to appreciate it. What movie am I thinking of that reminds me of the three of you (hint - Jim Carey is in it)? Strange - once again, as with the Wright bros., there are only two main characters in that, but three of you. Some kind of pattern I guess. Well there *was* this comedy team of 3 in the 40's and 50's...
Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
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LOL, LOL, LOL!!!
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The funny part is that Tbne is trying to cozy up to the engineers, while at the same time thinking that helium has no weight.
Discuss amongst yourselves.
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Max

"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
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Is this a joke?

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<snip>

I always thought this mode was for towing. (I know, I laugh everytime I consider towing with the 41te tranny).
As has been said in the thread many times, take care of that transmission. I have an AWD '94 grand caravan that we've had for 4 years.... and it has had 3 transmissions in it.... and it is sitting right now with a bad transmission.
I also have a 1990 with the a-604 ultradrive (now called the 41te). It has developed the same screaming whine and would be sitting as well if I hadn't only paid $100 for it. <G>
Be gentle on the transmission or you'll be sorry.

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Actually, the owner's manual says to use "D" as you normally would.

That's what worries me. My son had the good intention of trying to get me and his mom a car that would last until . . . .
The other day he told me he wished he'd bought the 73 Dart with slant six and auto that needed some pretty extensive body work instead.

Mine never whined, it would just shift normal until the trans fluid warmed up, then limp home mode.

Yeah, I know. I think I need to find another old Dart/Valiant . . . .
Budd
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I think different vans have different settings. I have had 2 vans with the a-604. On my 1994 AWD van there is also an 'overdrive off' button on the dash, which keeps the same shift points as when you're in overdrive except for not shifting to overdrive. But if you shift to drive it changes the shift points rather drastically. It hangs in the lower gears for much longer, like waiting to shift to third until about 40 mph, and it would downshift at about 30 when coming to a stop (quite noticable).
In my latest $100 beater (1990 grand caravan with 3.3 and OD transmission) it has 'normal' shift points when in overdrive, but it switches to the heavy duty shift points when it's in drive. It certainly seems to be designed for more tough-going conditions (like heavy snow or towing).
I hope they've changed on the newer vans. These transmissions are laughable anyway, super heavy duty shift points is kind of inviting trouble. It makes folks think the transmissin is designed well enough for towing.

Now you're talkin'.
:-D

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Gary Glaenzer wrote:

>snip>

>snip>

interesting info i didn`t know -- just knew to avoid these cars because their trannys are notorious -- just curious, if positrak could be installed on them and if this would reduce the problem (assuming driver still does his best to eliminate spinning)
>snip>

i heard the engines were good -- i know nothing about them but is the belt tensioner like the idler pulley in older motors -- to keep the fan cooling down the engine?
>snip>
rach
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Thanks all,
Dave

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