2004.5 CTD TSB's

I'm having a problem with my local Dodge dealer. It's Tucson Dodge if anyone is interested. Called them and asked if there was a TSB on my truck about
the fuel mileage. They asked for the VIN number and I gave it to them. They said, no TSB's on that truck. People keep telling me there is. So I called again, same answer. Someone on the MML emailed me a link to this:http://dodgeram.info/tsb/2004/18-037-04.htm so I called the dealer back and asked why I was not told about this and had to do my own investigating to find it. They gave me the run around and I'm a tad upset about it. They actually told my this procedure may reduce the fuel mileage. How can I find out what the truth is and how can narrow down my searches to find TSB's for this truck?
And, is this worth doing? http://dodgeram.info/tsb/2004/18-004-04.htm
Al
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Al:
This TSB you reference will do nothing to help your fuel economy so the dealer wasn't giving you the run around. It addresses exactly what it says it does.
As a disinterested third party, I would be happy to check for applicable TSB's and advise you accordingly. Just email me with your VIN and I will check for you .
What kind of fuel economy are you experiencing? City? Highway? Laden/Unladen? Any mods to the truck? Different tire size than OEM? Driving style? Tire pressures? All of these can (and do!) impact your fuel economy.
Over the years, the biggest factor I've found in poor fuel economy is the nut holding the steering wheel.
:^)
Chryco Service Manager Member SAE

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

about
called
investigating
They
says
fuel
Sorry, but here is what the TSB says: ( http://dodgeram.info/tsb/2004/18-037-04.htm )
a.. Improved Fuel Economy - A new ECM calibration has been developed which should provide customers an average fuel economy improvement of approximately 1 M.P.G. a.. Reduces white exhaust smoke on cold start at temperatures below 50 deg. F (10 deg. C). a.. Improves accuracy of the fuel economy calculation in the overhead console display.
Note the first line.
My mileage is very good at low speeds. If I drive fast, like 75, it goes way down. Truck is completely stock, has 3.73 gears and a six speed manual. Here is why I think something is nuts. Pulled a trailer and race car to Northwest Phoenix, and drove the truck back completely empty. Kept between 60 and 65 on the way up and about 75 on the way back. The trailer and race car have to weigh over 5,000 pounds. Got better mileage on the way up. And on the way up, I took the wrong exit and got stuck in stop and go traffic for about 45 minutes. Makes no sense to me.
Al
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Ooops! Sorry! The TSB referred to in the body of your text is a different TSB than the one you provided a link to and I incorrectly asssumed they were one and the same.

Define very good
If I drive fast, like 75, it goes way

Define way down
Truck is completely stock, has 3.73 gears and a six speed manual. Here

Define better mileage
And on the way

Al, I got your email with the VIN and will check TSB's for you however if you are concerned about fuel economy as a result of this one trip, then what you have is really no more than anecdotal evidence. In order to truly check fuel economy, it must be done over several fill-ups removing the variables.
For example, fuel variability can account for a 1-2 mpg difference. This could be the difference between winter blend and summer blend diesel.
Also, driving conditions can play a big role. When towing my RV in flat level conditions, I can usually get ~13mpg at ~70mpg. On the other hand, when towing in hilly or mountainous conditions, the fuel economy drops to ~9.5 mpg. This can occur (and frequently does!) on one trip. On one RV trip in recent memory, the presence of a stiff head wind dropped my fuel economy down by ~ 2mpg.
Mike

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Here is more info. Bought the truck new from Royal Gate Dodge in St. Louis. It came with a full tank of fuel. Filled it myself and it was really full:) That first tank gave me an honest 19.6 MPG running around in St. Louis and driving slow, around 55 MPH to Chicago and back. Then I drove it back to Tucson. My mileage went to around 13.5 driving a steady 75. I'm going to go through all my fuel receipts and see how it's really doing. My last two tanks was mostly city driving and I got right at 19 when I averaged them out.
On the way to and from Phoenix in the example I listed I was going by the overhead MPG indicator. It might not be accurate but since it was all in the same day the figures should be at least an indication of the difference. I reset it, drove up there, reset it and drove back. Little over 125 miles each way, was about 3 MPG better on the way up.
The seat belt chime has also gone nuts and now the "key in" chime is intermittently nuts too. Hope this is not indicative of a more serious problem. The truck is going in for the chime problem later this week.
Thanks for the help.
Al
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

dealer
TSB's
will
the
deg.
way
Here
Northwest
to
45
shoot my 05 sounds like the same setup and gets simmular results. my responce keep her round 65 on the interstate.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

if
them.
it.
I
http://dodgeram.info/tsb/2004/18-004-04.htm
the
applicable
which
65
have
way
The rub is my friends, two of them, have 02's and they are both getting over 20 on the highway. One is automatic the other is stick. Or they both are BS'in me.
Al
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Nope, they're not. You need to understand that you have a different engine than they do. Yes, they're very similar, but with completely different fuel systems. Is it so unreasonable to expect a drop in fuel economy when bumping the HP from 235 to 325? Or the torque from 460 to 600?
It's a known fact that the 3rd gen engines are less fuel-efficient than previous 24V engines. And the '04.5 engines get worse mileage than '03 or '04 engines. This is all due to increased emissions standards, and in the case of the '04.5, is directly attributable to the 3rd injection event.
It's also a known fact that the 2nd gen trucks are more aerodynamically efficient than the 3rd gen trucks, which also accounts for the drop in fuel economy. Since the trucks that have the Cummins as an option aren't subject to CAFE regulations, DC isn't as motivated to push their engine supplier for fuel efficiency. Therefore, Cummins first priority on their engines is meeting emissions requirements - fuel economy is a secondary concern.
It's simply the way it is, and doesn't mean anything is wrong with your particular truck.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Aha! Now we are getting to the crux of the matter :^).
As Tom L. correctly pointed out, your 2004.5 will never get the fuel economy of a 2002. The power output difference between the two engines is just too great. That power output diff has to come from somewhere and that somewhere is fuel economy. The emissions regs play a large role too.
In an earlier post, you indicated around 19 mpg around town in StL... that sounds about right. My '03 HO with 3.73 gets around 19 mpg with a combination city/highway driving.
Send me your correct VIN and I will double check the TSB's for you tho' just to be sure.
Mike

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Big Al wrote:

Wind resistance........... next to high speed this will kill your millage. Once had a slide in camper I hauled with my Cummins. Would get 18-19 all day long driving around town but as soon as I hit the freeway the mileage dropped to 13-14.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Mike might can verify this, and while the TSB in the link above doesn't say it, ISTR that there was some kind of temperature restriction for the idle speed function to work too. IOW, you can't set the idle up if the outside temp is above xx degrees similar to the operation of the grid heaters?
Greg
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Al, Your mileage is correct. If you don't want 14 MPG, don't drive 75. The optimum speed for your truck is 55. I have 4.10s and my optimum is 45-50. These trucks are not aerodynamic. Don't drive fast if you want to conserve fuel. Steve

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Guess I'm beating a dead horse. Should I get the "flash" done?
http://dodgeram.info/tsb/2004/18-037-04.htm
Al
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Al, I don't know. I have an early '04. You have a late '04 and you have triple event injection and I have a double. If you are smoking a lot, probably yes, if not then no. I would ask Tom Lawrence, he will know. Steve

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Actually Mike will probably know better once he looks at the specifics. Off-hand, I would say the flash won't hurt your mileage, and could very well improve it slightly (don't get your hopes up - we're talking less than 2MPG). Many people with '04.5's have reported slightly better fuel economy with this particular flash. As I have an '03, I tend to not read as much about the "triple-squirters", since it's not my problem :)
If it were my truck, I'd ask very nicely of the service manager to load this flash, and perhaps even embellish a little on the amount of "white smoke on startup" - as that's what the main purpose of the TSB was. Remember - it's just a TSB - it doesn't mean you're automatically entitled to have the service dept. do whatever it says (as you would be if it were a recall).
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
alright tom you have got my curiosity up......triple squirters?
--
-Chris
05 CTD
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

From the first 12V 6BT's, through the last of the VP44-injected 24V ISB's, there has always been a single injection event, hydraulically-actuated (pump puts high pressure on the fuel line, overcoming the spring in the injector, and the injector "pops off", spraying fuel through the nozzle).
With the advent of electrically-actuated injectors, it became possible to have multiple injection events per combustion cycle. Starting with the HPCR engine in '03, there was a 'pilot' injection event, which squirted a miniscule amount of fuel to begin the combustion process, followed by the main injection event, which delivered a much greater (by comparison) amount of fuel. It's this pilot injection that had the most dramatic effect on quieting the engine. Instead of all the fuel arriving (essentially) at the same time and exploding, a much smaller "explosion" happens during the pilot injection. Now when the main injection event occurs, it's more of a "burn" rather than a "bang". That reduced the classic "clatter" noise of the diesel significantly, provided more power, and is probably a little kinder to the engine, as well.
Starting in '04.5, Cummins added a "post-injection" event - which has something to do with cleaning up the emissions (yeah - go figure - they make it cleaner by spraying more diesel), and the way things interact with the catalytic converter, etc. etc. I don't understand it, and frankly, I don't want to. There's great interest in a programmer that can turn off this third event, as it does nothing for power production. There may be a solution coming in the next several weeks out of Italy... time will tell.
At any rate, there's your "triple squirt" - pilot injection, main injection, and post injection.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
ah ok i was familar with the mechanical injectors. and the pre injection bit to quieten the engine. but was out of the dodge shop aparrently before word of a 3rd squirt was passed down my way anyways. and had me puzzling as to why there would be. thanks for the info.
--
-Chris
05 CTD
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

ISB's,
to
the
kinder
the
tell.
Hey, I learned something today:)
Thanks Tom,
Al
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

    Motorsforum.com is a website by car enthusiasts for car enthusiasts. It is not affiliated with any of the car or spare part manufacturers or car dealers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.