500 ppm diesel still readily available......

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Checking out the local gas station as I was filling up since I may get a diesel soon and they still sell 500 PPM sulpher diesel. What is the point of
mandating 80% of diesel production be Ultra Low Sulpher when nobody has to sell it?
Also diesel Rams now meet 2010 emission standards but not the Sprinters? Seems odd since Sprinter comes from Europe where diesel is big....
http://sev.prnewswire.com/auto/20070123/CLTU00523012007-1.html
WASHINGTON, Jan. 23 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- New 2007 Dodge Ram 2500 and 3500 with Cummins 6.7-liter turbodiesel engine is first Chrysler Group BLUETEC vehicle and first to meet stringent 2010 truck emissions standards in all 50 states.
- 6.7-liter Cummins turbodiesel engine achieves 2010 NOx emission standards three years early, making it the cleanest and best-performing heavy-duty pickup truck in the market - BLUETEC-equipped 2007 Dodge Ram Heavy Duty available in March, starting at $33,650 (includes destination) - 2007 Dodge Ram Heavy Duty is the first Chrysler Group BLUETEC vehicle - Breakthrough emissions technology along with the use of Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel (ULSD) enables "systems approach" to improve air quality - Nitrogen oxide (NOx) emissions reduced by as much as 90 percent; particulate emissions virtually eliminated - Diesel engines provide up to 30 percent better fuel economy when compared to equivalent gasoline engines
Today at the Washington (D.C.) Auto Show, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), together with the Department of Energy (DOE), Chrysler Group and Cummins, recognized the new 2007 Dodge Ram Heavy Duty as the cleanest mass-production diesel-engine pickup truck on the market.
Available in dealerships in March, the Dodge Ram Heavy Duty's 6.7-liter Cummins turbodiesel engine is the first to meet 2010 truck emissions standards in all 50 states, and will be significantly cleaner than other pickup trucks. It is the first BLUETEC vehicle from the Chrysler Group.
"This new technology is a significant validation of industry's ability to meet EPA's 2010 clean diesel standards. These innovations help power our economy and drive our environmental successes," said Bill Wehrum, EPA's Acting Assistant Administrator for Air and Radiation.
The new 2007 Dodge Ram Heavy Duty engine uses a diesel particulate filter (DPF) to virtually eliminate particulate matter emissions and an adsorber catalyst to reduce oxides of nitrogen (NOx) by as much as 90 percent.
"The Dodge Ram Heavy Duty pickup truck with the new 6.7-liter Cummins turbodiesel engine is the cleanest diesel truck available on the market," said Tom LaSorda, President and Chief Executive Officer, Chrysler Group. "Working together with Cummins, Dodge is the only manufacturer to meet stringent 2010 emissions standards -- today. That's great news for our Heavy Duty customers -- 80 percent of whom choose the diesel option."
Dodge Ram Heavy Duty trucks' long-standing relationship with Cummins was established in 1988 and continues to thrive with new, more powerful, more efficient and cleaner turbodiesel engines. In Indiana late last year, Cummins produced the 1.5-millionth diesel engine for the Dodge Ram.
"Partnerships like the one we have enjoyed with the DOE and the leadership shown by the EPA on ULSD have provided the right environment for this technological breakthrough," said Tim Solso, Cummins Chairman and CEO. "We continue to research and invest in technologies that ensure Dodge Ram heavy- duty trucks equipped with the Cummins turbodiesel engine are as clean as they are powerful."
Improved Emissions and Durability
In addition to the NOx adsorber and the DPF, the 6.7-liter turbodiesel engine includes other technologies to improve fuel efficiency and reduce unburned hydrocarbons.
- A cooled exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) system combines with a uniquely designed piston combustion bowl and a high-flow, electronically-controlled Variable Geometry Turbocharger (VGT(TM)), matching boost pressure with the engine's performance needs to reduce emissions and improve drivability - Within the exhaust system, a self-cleaning DPF and an oxidation catalyst reduces particulate matter by a factor of 10. The emissions system is designed for a government-certified 120,000 miles - A new closed crankcase ventilation system eliminates crankcase fumes and oil carry-over, a common problem with past diesels
As durable as it is powerful, the 6.7-liter Cummins turbodiesel has life- to-major overhaul intervals of 350,000 miles, providing more than a 100,000- mile advantage over the competition.
Nearly 40 percent of the new engine's parts are carryover, with modifications geared to surpass emissions standards and increase horsepower and torque, while maintaining the durability associated with Dodge and Cummins.
Dodge Ram Heavy Duty models equipped with the 6.7-liter Cummins turbodiesel engine will begin appearing in dealerships in March, starting at $33,650 including destination.
Chrysler Group Diesel-powered Models
In the United States, current Chrysler Group diesel-powered models include the Dodge Ram Heavy Duty, powered by the new 6.7-liter Cummins turbodiesel; the all-new Dodge Ram 3500 Chassis Cab, with a new 6.7-liter Cummins turbodiesel; the Dodge Sprinter, with a 2.7-liter Common-rail Direct Injection (CDI) turbodiesel; and the Jeep(R) Grand Cherokee, featuring a new 3.0-liter V-6 turbodiesel engine (which hits the market early this year).
In Europe, diesel-powered models account for more than half of Chrysler Group sales. Diesel versions of numerous Chrysler Group vehicles continue to be popular, including the Chrysler 300C, Chrysler PT Cruiser, Jeep Grand Cherokee and Jeep Compass, as well as the all-new 2007 Dodge Caliber and 2007 Jeep Wrangler.
Advanced diesel technology is part of the Chrysler Group's advanced propulsion technology umbrella, which also includes efficient gasoline engines, hybrids, flex-fuel vehicles and biodiesel capability.
Dodge Brand
With a U.S. market share of 6 percent, Dodge is the Chrysler Group's best- selling brand and the fifth largest nameplate in the U.S. automotive market. In 2006, Dodge sold more than 1.3 million vehicles in the global market. Dodge continues to lead the minivan market with a 20 percent market share in the U.S. In the highly competitive truck market, Dodge has a 15 percent market share. Dodge is also entering key European volume segments with Nitro and Caliber.
Cummins
Cummins Inc., a global power leader, is a corporation of complementary business units that design, manufacture, distribute and service engines and related technologies, including fuel systems, controls, air handling, filtration, emission solutions, and electrical power generation systems. Headquartered in Columbus, Indiana, Cummins serves customers in more than 160 countries through its network of 550 company-owned and independent distributor facilities and more than 5,000 dealer locations. Cummins produces the diesel for the Dodge Ram 2500 and 3500 series.
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Beleive me, you filled up with ULSD.
Mandates require it be in all retail locations October 15, 2006.
In California by Sept 1, 2006.
Only place you still buy 500 ppm is outside California is for offroad, Marine and locomotive uses until June 1. Unless you go to Mexico where you can still buy yellow diesel. (yellow because it has so much sulphur in it)

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GeekBoy wrote:

Hah! Let me get this straight: We (the U.S.) have 800 ppm diesel, and Mexico has Diesel that has so much sulfur in it that it is called "yellow diesel"?
Did I miss something? Isn't Mexico a member of the Kyoto Treaty? Isn't it ironic that we catch so much crap for not signing Kyoto, and yet, we are stricter on ourselves than Kyoto is on its own members. To quote Mel Brookes: "Woof!!".
Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
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No, the US has 5 ppm diesel. The US used to sell high sulphur diesel until I think till the 80s That is why the pump handles were yellow, but now green. Notice the fuel containers are still yellow.

Just because they may be a member does not mean it takes effect imediatly or that the treaty called for reduction of sulphur in diesel. Have you read the treaty?
It's actually was .05% sulphur content. Not all areas have the high sulplur diesel. Problem is it's high sulfur content is unkind to turbochargers, and electronic metered fuel circuits. They sell 500 PPM disel in most of Mexico now. PEMEX is suppose to start making 5 ppm diesel later this year.

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GeekBoy wrote:

Then I guess that begs the question even more: What value is Kyoto if we here in the U.S. (a non-member) control environmental minutia that Kyoto apparently doesn't even address and that its members like Mexico are way further behind in? IOW - why are we supposed to feel guilty for not signing when we apparently do better relying on our own integrity than signers are required to do by what they signed?

No I haven't.

Not following you there. *What* was actually 0.05% sulphur content? BTW - 0.05% is the same as 500 ppm.
Not all areas have the high sulplur

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
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I do not know where you are getting that. First there is no 5 PPM requirement yet and the US had nothing but a 500 PPM standard until about a year ago after EPA mandated the change some time before that and also not current Dodge sold today as it is equipped meets NOx emissons for 2008 as they will have more equipment added to them in 08 and the new CTS will gain about 130 pounds in the process for additional emission controls added to it. THe main reason for LSD is so they can add true CATS to them (not thermo reracotrs mistaken for CATS) staring in 08 as sulpher need to be at or below 50 PPM for CATS to work on them. Any high sulpher fuel around here is just from stocks because it is not longer being made and even off road will be LSD. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com
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THe main reason for LSD is

Now, how many times do you have to read the encyclopedia before you understand that what your calling a thermo reactor is infact by definition a Catalytic Converter. I've posted that same thing to you several times, and in fact even DODGE disagrees with you, they call it a catalyst also! so there is no mistaken point other than yours.
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On Thu, 25 Jan 2007 23:43:33 -0500, "Chris Thompson"

You are the one brain dead here, That thermo reactor (or TR for short) is for suspended particulates and it is not a CAT!! Sulpher in fuel in past would kill it big time (they had to remove it from gas starting in early 70's along with lead to make way for CATS on them starting in 75) but then there are always the uninformed like yourself that think they know all the answers and still believe it is a CAT. Cut one apart and you will find that it is not a CAT. Starting in 2008 with LSD they will have CATS. Your reliance on WinPedia proves your true lack of understanding of automotive emission technology ----------------- TheSnoMan.com
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wrote:

Then why does the engineers that write the FSM call it a Cat? Come on man!
and my reliance on wikipedia is as a simple tool to provide reliable information anyone can check and read. if you wish you too could google catalytic converter and find as much information on the subject as you wish. I'm not going to post it all. just the easiest to understand. notice the very last link I posted in this post. it was from Cummins the engine company that builds the very engine you claim so much knowledge about, and what do they call your Thermal Reactor????
say what you will about my understanding, I on the other hand along with the service managers I have worked with over the years know different.
straight from the wikipedia site:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalytic_converter [edit] Two-way catalytic converters A two-way catalytic converter has two simultaneous tasks:
1.. Oxidation of carbon monoxide to carbon dioxide: 2CO + O2 ? 2CO2 2.. Oxidation of unburnt hydrocarbons (unburnt and partially-burnt fuel) to carbon dioxide and water: 2CxHy + (x+y)O2 ? 2xCO2 + yH2O This type of catalytic converter is widely used on diesel engines to reduce hydrocarbon and carbon monoxide emissions. They also were used on spark ignition (gasoline) engines in automobiles up until 1981, when they were replaced by three-way converters due to regulatory changes requiring reductions on NOx emissions.
Curiously the regulations regarding hydrocarbons vary according to the engine regulated, as well as the jurisdiction. In some cases what is regulated is "non-methane hydrocarbons" and in other cases the regulated substance is "total hydrocarbons". Technology for one application (to meet a non-methane hydrocarbon standard) may not be suitable for use in an application that has to meet a total hydrocarbon standard. Methane is more difficult to break down in a catalytic converter, so in effect a "non-methane hydrocarbon" standard can be considered to be looser. However since methane is a greenhouse gas, more interest is rising in how to eliminate emissions of it.
[edit] Diesel Engines For compression ignition (I.e., Diesel) engines, the most commonly used catalytic converter is the diesel oxidation catalyst. The catalyst uses excess O2 (oxygen) in the exhaust gas stream to oxidize CO (Carbon Monoxide) to CO2 (Carbon Dioxide) and HC (hydrocarbons) to H2O (water) and CO2. These converters often reach 90% effectiveness, virtually eliminating diesel odor and helping to reduce visible particulates (soot), however they are incapable of reducing NOx as chemical reactions always occur in the simplest possible way, and the existing O2 in the exhaust gas stream would react first.
To reduce NOx on a compression ignition engine it is necessary to change the exhaust gas - two main technologies are used for this - selective catalytic reduction (SCR) and NOx (NOx) traps (or NOx Adsorbers).
Another issue for diesel engines is particulate (soot). This can be controlled by a soot trap or diesel particulate filter (DPF), as catalytic converters are unable to affect elemental carbon (however they will remove up to 90% of the soluble organic fraction). A clogging soot filter creates a lot of back pressure decreasing engine performance. However, once clogged, the filter goes through a regeneration cycle where diesel fuel is injected directly into the exhaust stream and the soot is burned off. After the soot has been burned off the regeneration cycle stops and injection of diesel fuel stops. This regeneration cycle will not affect performance of the engine.
All major diesel engine manufacturers(Ford, Caterpillar, Cummings, Volvo, MMC) starting January 1, 2007 are required to have a catalytic converter and a soot filter inline, as per a new DoT legislation(citation needed)
here's you a few more
a manufacturer's brochure on Diesel Catalyst
http://ect.jmcatalysts.com/pdf/DCC.pdf
from Cummins.com
http://www.cummins.com/cmi/content.jsp?siteId=1&langId 33&dataId36&newsInfo=true&menuId=4
Cleanest. Combining advanced in-cylinder technologies, including a Bosch flexible 1800-bar High Pressure Common Rail fuel system with Cummins next-generation cooled Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) and Variable Geometry Turbocharger (VGTTM), plus advanced exhaust aftertreatment technology, every Dodge Ram pickup will comply with the 2010 NOx and PM emissions standards. The advanced aftertreatment system includes a close-coupled diesel oxidation catalyst, a NOx adsorber catalyst and a combined diesel oxidation/particulate filter. The engine also incorporates a proprietary closed crankcase ventilation (CCV) system to eliminate crankcase fumes and "driveway drips." These advanced technologies require the use of Ultra-Low Sulfur Diesel (ULSD) fuel in order to meet the tough 2007 and 2010 regulations.
notice 2 things.
--1 they (Cummins) said its a catalyst
--2 they mention the ULSD not LSD another point where you are wrong but hey I'm not going bother you on this one, your having enough trouble with the 1st.
Now I have stated two of my many reputable sources for my statement that what you are calling a Thermal Reactor is in fact a Catalyst. now show me where I am wrong.
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wrote:

I'll be seeing with this glass eye before that happens!!!!!<BFG>
I figure "Stupid" will do what he has always done when he post's BS info. He will ignore you or will tell you that you are insecure or perhaps bore ya to death about a dump truck, a old suburban or perhaps a race car. He sucks, that's all there is to it.

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On Fri, 26 Jan 2007 09:57:03 -0500, "Chris Thompson"
Because it is a accepted term. A CAT has rare elements in it the reacts with hot gas to convert the emissions passing thru it. These same elements are destroyed quickly by high sulpher in fuel. A thermo reactor helps burn and lower the suspended particulates that diesels are famous for and are aways present. Why do you think the EPA ordered sulpher out? It was so they could start putting true CATs on oil burners and fully address the very high NOx and true grams per mile emissons that they produce. (one diesel makes as much NOX as about 5 to 10 cars in grams per mile) The reason diesels appear clean is because they have a high volume of air flowing thru them which dilutes emissions and makes PPM low when actually grams per mile is high. Gas engines have a much lower air flow thru them and at same PPM emit far less grams per mile than a diesel. Diesels are finally going to have to comply fully with emission requirements like gas engines have been for over 30 years now. You will see diesel ratings decline in coming years and economy suffer too as regs kick in because allow with exoitic injection systems to limit NOx they will also lower CR and boost to reduce NOx generation to begin with. Thye will either have to get bigger (more displacment for same power with less boost) or see ratings fade. Diesel have had a unfair edge in emissions for many years and loop hole is finially closing and long overdue. ----------------- TheSnoMan.com
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wrote:

<Long winded BS snipped>
and your reputable source is? come on I gave mine.
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"Cat" is an abbreviation for "catalytic converter". Palladiam covered ceramic beads act as a catylist to convert pollutants to, uh, less polluting pollutants.
Reference? Hahahah. Try google.
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Need Mercedes parts? http://parts.mbz.org
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wrote:

GM does it that way. Chrysler did theirs that look like honeycomb, but instead triangle shaped. I should know. I saw some pieces of it on my driveway after I put some racing fuel into my junker '79 Cordoba :-P

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.

you seem to miss the point of my asking him for a reliable ref. he's claiming that diesels don't use Catalytic Converters instead use some sort of thermal reactor that isn't a catalyst, my argument is that they do use them, and even the manufactures call them such. if I am so wrong in this, as SnoMan states that I am, then he should have no problem providing me with documentation contrary to what I have said. follow back in my thread I have suggested to him to do that very google search you suggest I do. I have already done it. thus the links that and clips I have previously posted. this is a discussion me and him have had before and I continue only as a warning to anyone who may listen to his missinformation about diesel emissions that he is flawed in his information. he will claim that the Cummins engine is about to have a bunch of stuff added to it to make it pass emissions for 2010 but Cummins sates that the 6.7 already passes the 2010 requirements as it sits 3 years early. I suggest that you read closely into what he's posting and then do the very research I have been suggesting that he should do to verify or debunk my information. if I am mistaken in any point I have made then I will gladly admit to my error. but I do not believe on this point that I have made one.
so once again its on SnoMan, if I'm wrong provide the online documentation so that I may examine it myself. (please reputable sources)
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Chris Thompson wrote:

It all boils down to "Does the thermal reactor have a chemical that behaves as what a chemist would consider a catalyst does". If the answer is 'no', then you are right, if 'yes', then he is right. (I don't know the answer.)
Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
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Richard Sexton wrote:

That's too technical a term for most people. :)
Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
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Richard Sexton wrote:

Its spelled Palladium, and the main ingredient in oxidation catcons is platinum anyway. And they haven't used beads in catalysts since 1980.
act as a catylist to convert pollutants to, uh, less

Reduction cats convert nitrogen oxides to nitrogen (N2) and free oxygen (O2). Oxidation catcons convert Carbon Monoxide and un-burned hydrocarbons to carbon dioxide and water. Oxidation catcons need free oxygen to work, and that's what air injection pumps are for. But with better fuel management systems like we have today, the free oxygen released by the reduction section of the cat is usually enough to fuel the oxidation section of the cat. Kinda neat, that.
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Chris Thompson wrote:

As I said - I have no horse in this race. There's a simple answer to this by answering this question: Does this "thermo reactor" have a chemical in it that acts as a true catalyst (i.e., some element or compound that enables or facilitates a desired chemical reaction and that returns to its original state after the reaction is complete) in it? If the answer is 'yes', then this thing can technically be called a catalytic converter even if it doesn't quite fit the mold of a traditional automotve catalytic converter. If it doesn't have a catalyst in it, then you can't correctly refer to it as a catalytic converter.
I don't know the answer - I just posed the question to settle this.
Bottom line: If it has a chemical that acts as a catalyst (as a chemist would define a catalyst) used in some process of converting something into something else, then it could be called a catalytic converter. If not, then it can't correctly be.
Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')
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wrote:

SnoMan:
It's not what you know that hurts you, it's what you think you know that ain't so is what gets you in trouble. On the '04 DR with Cummins ETO, refer to P/N 52018191AC (see your Dodge dealer for help on this), this part is a catalytic converter.... end of story.
Mike
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