About 2008 Dodge Avenger SE

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All three cars are sport compacts and not true sports cars. The basis for those cars is a weeniemobile platform, not a sports car platform.
The Neon SRT4 and the up-and-coming Caliber SRT4 are the same thing - weeniemobile platforms tweaked out to actually handle decently. Too bad they're only FWD. Torque steer nightmares.
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Honestly couldn't tell you. Like I said before, I personally don't care for these type of cars, (EVO, SRT4, etc.) but I also don't feel that because they have more than 2 doors and are FWD that they can't be classed as a sports car.

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Yes and no. The plus of a srandard is less weight and maybe a couple of hp. Other than that the auto is more consistant and a heck of a lot easier in traffic. The auto in the SRT8 will light the tires on a 1st-2nd shift, so it shifts real firm. I guess with a low hp torque engine a standard might help it out some.
A car that is used for autoX ,sure you want a standard, but for day in day out use I'd rather the auto.
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Roy wrote:

And it's just personal preference. I prefer the standard but I guess I'm out of luck with newer vehicles.
Bob
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It is not performance that I am talking about here but image and then there is the cost reduction.

I agree but the standard shift is a hell of a lot more fun in sport driving situations and while you can make your auto do it to a degree as well, you will be beating the shit out of it while a 5 speed is not as greatly affected.

That Charger of yours is a true example of what I'm saying. It really is a kick ass car that can beat many "performance " cars but it doesn't sell worth shit. Why is that? Because it is a boxy 4 door with nothing available but an automatic and doesn't exactly ring the cool bell for many. When the new Challenger was shown to the corporate idiots they were against it because it would require modifications to the assembly lines until a higher exec with a brain (a rarity indeed) pointed out the dismal sales of the Charger and the soaring sales of the Mustang. If you want to sell cars, you have to give the people what they want, even if it is simply a choice that many will never take. Most of the best selling cars are offered with a standard shift, especially the sport and sport styled ones.

I agree with you but we are talking about sports cars here or at least the appearance of sports cars.
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them sitting too long at a dealer. Also there is a 2k gas guzzler tax on them.

Well, the boxy 4 door will hold it's own with anything in it's price range. High 12's low 13's are nothing to sneeze at. That's about where most vettes run. Other than the Z06.

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The Hemi Charger _is_ a performance car. The SRT8 is even moreso.

Don't know where you live, but they're extremely popular around here. Tons of 'em on the road.

Gotta wonder where you live. I've never heard of a Hemi Charger not being "cool".

Not too many cars can touch a Hemi Charger right out of the box, especially in the price range. The SRT8 is simply awesome.

That's nonsense. Autos are the big sellers as far as volume.

Corvettes and Porsches are certainly sports cars, but then you have a whole different thing when you talk about cars like Miatas, Skys, Solstices, etc. I don't consider them true sports cars, but some do...
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On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 22:30:09 +0000, Joe wrote:

the Mazda Miata is a roadster not to be confused with a sports car. its made to be nimble and handle well. it cant run down a vette or even a low end v6 stang. but what it can do is out handle them hands down. when the high horse power cars have to slow around the corner the Miata will just cruise around it like its not there. they are fun little cars to drive, but damn hard to get out of.
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Then it sounds like where you live is the exception. I see them on the road here as well but I see a lot more Mustangs, hell, I see a lot more Superduty's then Chargers.

That is more of a personal opinion but I don't recall it getting any specail attention for its stunning looks.

LOL, what you just said is nonsence. Where did I say that standard shifts were the big seller as far as volume goes. What I said was that the bigger selling vehicles were offered with standard shifts, not that the standard shifts versions outsold the auto's. Learn how to read.

They are not sports cars, they are roadsters and while they could not touch the Charger or Mustang in a flat out run, they can out handle them with ease.
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TBone wrote:

I see far more Chargers here than Mustangs. But then I see far more Dodges than Fords in general here despite Ford outselling Dodge nationwide. Depends on where you live. Arizona is Dodge country, not Ford.
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That's because the dealers don't order a whole bunch of them. The dealer by me had one for months but that was a while ago. They are selling faster now that people know how fast they are but they are still far from flying off of the floor and DC is still dissapointed with the sales numbers.

I never said that it was slow. In fact, I do recall calling it a kick ass car but is is still a boxy 4 door.

I don't understand.
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With regard to the Charger SRT not the other Chargers. They were and are a limited production item. The dealers are asking list and in some cases list+ That is why they may sit. When I decided to buy mine there were 3 from Philly north. Reading last night, they are now tough to find in new england and the nothwest. I sorta figure the popularity will increase as a 4 door they are a heck of a lot more practical than a vette and straight line performance and stopping ability is about the same. .
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TBone wrote:

Dealers here in Arizona have a large stock of Chargers and Avengers. Both models are selling very well.
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