Boiling a battery

So sitting next to engine exhaust is what kind of heat? I mean, its only

about 200F under the hood, right?

You saying that the charge rate of a battery is defined by the voltage

since it has EVERYTHING to do with how much current? Dang, I coulda

bought an el cheapo charger and charged my battery just as fast.

LOL, while you can measure the current draw from the starter in YOUR vehicle

(actually, I doubt that you really have the ability), if you think that

every starter pulls the same current you are even dumber than I thought and

now you are reaching all new levels of ignorance. With that in mind, NO,

you do not have the specific values for his vehicle or even yours for that

matter so once again, you are wrong and full of shit as well. Oh, and BTW,

I do have an inductive amp meter that can read current levels that high.

Hahahahahahaha, you really are funny. While current may be measured in

amps, voltage is the force that causes current flow and current is simply

how much is flowing. The higher the system voltage is above the battery

voltage (state of charge), the more current is going to flow into it so as I

said, both the 14.2 AND the batteries state of charge has everything to do

with it. Once again, you demonstrate your complete ignorance of even simple

DC circuits.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha, oh, please, stop,

you are killing me. Can you really be this dumb? First of all, if you are

talking about current, you cannot measure that across the terminals of the

battery, LOL. Second, unless you disconnect at least one of the terminals

of the battery from the system to isolate it, the system is still connected

and will still influence your readings. Third, only an idiot would attempt

to load test the battery with the engine running and again, unless you

disconnect the battery, the system will still be there. BTW, if the engine

is not running, the battery is the only source of power and will be the only

thing load tested regardless of where you connect the ground wire, LOL.

difference.

Really??? Got proof on the battery age thing??? It is more the condition

of the battery than it's age and BTW, an old and / or abused battery builds

resistance due to sulfation and takes LESS current and a lesser chance of

"boiling" at a given voltage. How many times can you be wrong before you

just give up? As you seem to be demonstrating, an infinite number of times,

LOL.

LOL, the "glove box light" and starter both have a direct effect on the

condition of the battery as in its state of charge so my theory as a

possible cause of his problem is valid, even by your idiotic standards.

As long as you make it this easy to make you look foolish, you CAN bet on

it.

Yea, if the el-cheapo charger could maintain the voltage as a steady DC

voltage, you would be correct. The problem is that most cheep chargers do

not have the current capability and the battery will pull their voltage DOWN

while charging. I would think that YOU of all people would know this. Am I

wrong?

And you think that temperature will not be at least 50 degrees hotter under

the hood in 115 degree temps?

I think that you should stick to these types of posts. At least here you

just look childish instead of both childish and ignorant.

So now the state of charge is part of it? Well duh, no kidding. But I'm

still talking about the condition of the battery, not just the state of

charge. And its interesting that you've argued in the past that volts had

nothing to do with current, now you claim it has everything to do with it.

Does that merry go round yer on have a colliape?

Um, yeah, ya can. See, load testers have this neat little resistance bank in

them, makes a bunch of heat, but generally does a good job of checking

current output of a battery. Available at any good auto parts place.

Right, but I figured that was so elementary, that if you actually knew what

you were doing, you'd know to pull the negative terminal.

I never said to load test it with the engine running. Indeed, I never gave

any specific instructions or conditions under which to test it. You are

reaching pretty hard there.

Correct, so pull a terminal clamp and do it right. You know how to pull a

terminal clamp, right? You've got the right tools?

Um, yeah, thats the idea. Load testing a battery is best done by load

testing the battery. You act as though this is a new discovery of yours,

been doing some reading in order to catch up?

Actually, yes, I do. Let me dig a bit here......

Sound familiar?

As to the current, yup, an older battery will take less current, since less

of its plates are able to be used in the chemical reaction. What this means

is directly the opposite of what you claim. It takes less current to charge,

but at the same time, it takes less current to exceed its ability to charge,

thus, it heats up faster, and boils more easily. Thats why some large

battery chargers have timers with age increments on them.

You might want to check your facts on who is looking foolish, Mr. "Helium

has no weight"

200, 250, makes little difference to a battery, really. Both are higher than

optimum for a battery. Thus, 3 years avg is logical, despite your

blustering.

I think you missed the part where Miles just whacked you upside the head.

I know about batteries.

One thing the OP did NOT tell us is what the initial charging voltage

is after a restart, and preferably what the charging current is.

Initial charging voltage on a healthy partly discharged battery will

be significantly below 14.2 volts.

As long as the charging voltage is within parameters, a healthy

battery will not gas excessively even IF the battery state of charge

is down. Now, a battery with basic health issues is a horse of an

entirely different colour.

I'm still voting for 2 sulphated or otherwise worn out 3 year old

batteries

Unless you have significant system resistance both will be the same

(within no more than 0.2 volts)

Locked armature starter current on a 59 olds was305 amps - and no load

current was 100 amps. On a 61 olds it was 370 locked armature, and 120

no load.

No load current on a 1983 Chrysler 360 was 90 amps, and locked

armature a mere 180 amps. Most 4 cyl and V6 engines today run closer

to 45 amps no load, and 150 locked armature - with average cranking

current less than 120 amps for less than 5 seconds.

That is LESS THAN POINT TWO AMP HOURS of battery capacity required to

start the engine on todays vehicle, whereas my old '57 Fargo usually

cranked for 15 seconds at 200 amps - which figures out to POINT EIGHT

amp hours.

If the trunk had a 60 amp generator on it, and charged at the full

rate, which it would not do, it would charge for about a minute.

At 30 amps, it would charge for about 2 minutes. At 15 amps, 4

minutes. In real world operating conditions the battery would reach a

full state of charge in less than 10 minutes of charging at below 10

amps.

On today's cars, you are dividing that time by 4.

Frankly, I cannot see this being an issue with regards to battery

water usage.

Many times my van sits with a 200ma draw (2.4 watts) for an entire

weekend ( say 3 days or 72 hours) and starts with no problem, and the

battery recharges with no gassing or water loss. Batteries generally

last me about 3 years or more - my Toyota went 7 years on the

original, but most are ready (have been) to be retired by the end of 4

years.

I'll speek for myself.

Battery voltage with the engine running, system charging, and whatever

load applied to the system to reduce charging voltage to 12.6 or less.

12.6 volts with the charging system functioning means the LOAD is

drawing the entire output of the charging system. Any less means the

load is drawing all the system can produce PLUS it is drawing from the

battery.

Not a very likely situation - which is my point.

The only thing other than voltage that controls the current flow into

a battery is RESISTANCE. Resistance is affected by state of charge,

but on a longterm basis, more by battery condition.

You are WRONG.

If the ignition switch is turned off, and the doors closed etc, the

only load on the battery from the SYSTEM would be ECU keepalive

current of several miliamps - which is TOTALLY off the scale of

relevancy when doing a load test.

Also, the ONLY dependable test of battery condition is a battery

transconductance test - the most common unit in use being the

"midtronics" analyzer. It WILL accurately test a battery with as

little as 9 volts open circuit voltage (and possibly less) and tell

you if it is good or bad.

An AVR test is simply a load test with the engine running and is used

to check the performance of the charging system on a daily basis by

thousands of mechanics around the world.

However, the BATTERY load test is generally the first test performed

on a starting/charging system if a transconductance tester is not

available.

If the load test (or transconductance test if available) passes and

the battery is up to proper charge (in case of passing a

transconductance test) the starter draw test is usually next. If

starter current is within range, and the battery cranking voltage does

not drop below spec (usually 9.6 volts on older vehicles) the battery

voltage recovery is checked (if transconductance test was not done) to

see how quickly the unloaded battery returns to 12 volts.(usually

after leaving headlamps on high beam for a few minutes)

Then the engine is started and the charging system tests performed.

If the battery has failed it's tests, the results of the charging

system tests will be inconclusive.

Then the engine is started and the

Except if you have a poor ground connection, in which case all reslts

will be skewed. So - the RIGHT way to do the load test is with

connections TO THE BATTERY with a load drop test across the connection

from the post to the cable if the battery is not disconnected.

And a battery that has lost plate material due to age and or abuse

develops a LOW internal resistance, and draws MORE power from the

charging system, resulting in a lower charging voltage at a given

charging current. So does a battery with warped plates and/or damaged

separators.

Also, a sulphated battery WILL offgas during charging more than a good

battery at the same charging current.

>

The INDUSTRY STANDARD AVERAGE LIFESAPAN is under 3 years. I have had

many go well over that - but I usually overspec my batteries, so even

at half capacity I still get by. The battery I replaced in my

TransSport last year was less than 2 years old and would start the

vehicle just fine under normal conditions - but OCCAISIONALLY was just

plain dead. Fifteen minutes later it MIGHT just decide to start the

van. That is the ONLY battery I have ever seen fool a Midtronics

tester. I checked it, and it said bad - so I had the battery guy check

it - and it passed.He said I had a bad battery connection. Less than

an hour later the truck would not start - and it showed bad again.

Battery was replaced under Warrranty.No problems since.

Except when I left my 200+ma load connected for 2 weeks while I flew

off to Alaska for holidays. With better than 84 amp hours of power

pulled from the battery it wasn't going ANYWHERE when my daughter went

to start it to pick me up from the airport.

Quick recharge, and good as new.

Up here in Southern Ontario, with 90 degree F summers, underhood

temps, even without running the engine, routinely reach 140.

Yes, heat kills batteries. So does 0 degree F cold!!!

You know what happens when you get both.

So you mean they are 60 month rated batteries, right?? How old are

they? I've had scads of "lifetime" batteries last exactly that long -

the "lifetime" of the battery - which was between 6 weeks and 3 years.

NEVER had a lifetime guaranteed battery - Die-Hard, Canadian Tire, or

whatever, last 3 years without warranty replacement. Half the time you

are cheaper to buy a new battery outright than to pay the "pro rata"

replacement cost of a battery over one or two years old (in the case

of fixed length battery warranties.)

I don't buy cheap batteries either. Sometimes I get lucky and get

inexpensive batteries.

Yes, you're wrong. A dead battery will pull more current than a charged

one. The charge voltage will be about the same.

How hot is the battery when the engine isn't even running? Storage temp

is critical to a battery life.

Batteries do wear out faster in say Phoenix than in Los Angeles.

Storing a battery in 115 degree weather vs. 75 will make a difference.

No doubt, but stuffing it under the hood of a car where temps hit 200+, its

really no difference if its 200, 250, or 300 under there, all are above the

best temp to store a battery.